Religion

[crazydil]

There have been a few threads in regards to religion and without exception there are always a few posters who cannot help themselves from being disrespectful.

Is it difficult to get a point across without a slight dig? Criticism is part of a healthy discussion but to be so rude about something that is very important to some. ..is it really needed?
I've never felt the need to be rude about anyones belief no matter how strange I find it to be.

So basically aibu in expecting respect in any conversation

Our country has become a tolerant secular society but it has uncovered a growing minority of fundamentalist Christians who are upset about losing their religious privilege. Its a relic of a bygone era when people understandably believed all sorts of nonsense but has no place in the modern world.

Every one is entitled to believe what they want but it should not be imposed on others. Its getting close to the time when we will disestablish the church, so start getting used to equality, Christian privilege is not something to be respected.

I agree with your OP and I dont even feel like people need to respect my religion, it's ok to think something's bad or weird etc, but when that something means the world to someone else surely the decent thing is to express disagreement politely.

My point exactly. Its like if someone asks me how they look, I can answer truthfully without ridiculing them.

Instead they believe that God gave us free will and we managed to fuck it all up by ourselves with climate change.

Hmm, funny thing about that 'free will' we supposedly have. Firstly is comes with the condition that we must follow that god to the absolute or there are consequences. Secondly, 'god' is apparently all knowing - knows all that has been, and all to come. That means that 'free will' in this context doesn't exist, everything is a 'set plan' and whatever 'choices' we've made or to make have already been done. A no-win situation as it were.

I don't agree with Hinduism and my hindu friend doesn't agree with my belief yet surprisingly we can hold a discussion without any snide remarks

The thing is, if religious people kept religion to themselves, didn't force it into the public forum (especially schools and politics), there wouldn't really be a need for discussion, would there? No one to 'disrespect' your beliefs if you just keep them to yourself.

If religion didn't have such an impact on the world around us, no one would give a shiny shit what people 'believed'. As it is, unproven (and quite often disproven) theology finds itself weaving its way into society, and it's often a huge fight to have it changed or removed.

Its getting close to the time when we will disestablish the church
Doubt it. Not sure how things are in the UK, but where I am, the christian lobby is extremely powerful and will always have it's hand in politics.

but where I am, the christian lobby is extremely powerful and will always have it's hand in politics.

And that is why you cannot expect people to not disrespect religion. Always interfering in things it has no right being a part of - humanity will never progress whilst religion has such power.

Userwho - I think you're getting confused. There were always fundamentalist Christian groups but they were and are dissenters, so not the establishment at all. The Anglican establishment, who hold the privilege, scarcely believe in anything at all.

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My religion doesn't treat me as an inferior being but I've found people that hold views such as yours often do. Islam gives me joy, fulfillment and freedom amongst other things, as it does for millions of others.

Even though that religion clearly states in the Quaran about " beating women to death", advocates sex with female prisoners of war and that "men are superior and have authority over women"....... doesn't seem very joyful to me. Of course in reality a lot of that wil be ignored but not always. In some middle eastern countries it is strictly adhered to, the women have very few rights if any. So yes i will have my views and with very good reason.

Edmund - well I don't believe any of what you've posted and I'm not sure many liberal christians would

And I believe church and state should be disestablished and no one should be forced into religiousity in school.

Edmund - well I don't believe any of what you've posted confused and I'm not sure many liberal christians would

Yes, it's amazing how many 'different' Christians there are as well. Many seem to like to pick and choose which bits they like to believe in. Easier to ignore all the bad bits, contradictions, glaring inaccuracies and plot holes in the scriptures that way. Or just twist it into their own narrative I guess.

And I believe church and state should be disestablished and no one should be forced into religiousity in school

Good! Truth is, a lot of ordinary religious people probably agree with you - but don't do enough (if anything) to challenge their organisation to change. If all the push has to come from the outside, from atheists, then it sets up an atmosphere of defensiveness and divisiveness.

Yes, the scriptures can be interpreted in many ways.

I don't ignore what the bad people do either, thankfully there's plenty of criticism of what far right (people who think their Christians) do. Plenty of anger towards the cover ups in the Catholic Church. Plenty of catholic friends who are very liberal too.

Except it doesn't though roseforarose ...same tired nonsense and wild exaggerations, how boring...maybe when you hold such strong views on something you should educate yourself first.

Yes, the scriptures can be interpreted in many ways.

What's the point of them then? If people can read them anyway they choose, then it just further proves their inaccuracies. You'd think that anything so important, that this god would want everyone to believe in, to follow absolute, would be as clear as day. Guess that's what happens when you only 'talk' to humans for a tiny portion of world history, hundreds of years ago, in only Middle Eastern ancient language. It's almost like this god doesn't want people to believe it's 'true'.

Whats the point of them

I'm not sure, I'm not a scriptural expert. My belief in a universal consciousness has very little to do with scripture.

And some of them seem clearer than others to me like 'love your neighbour' (your neighbour is everyone). That really is the central tenet of the faith, that we should show love to everyone.

Just like I'm sure you do. You don't need faith to do that.

samG76

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/1449593-To-feel-a-bit-miffed-about-I-cant-shake-hands-with-women-for-religious-reasons

My belief in a universal consciousness has very little to do with scripture.

And this is precisely the issue. When you (plural) have a belief/faith with no evidence to prove it, it becomes an endless narrative of whatever comes into that person's imagination - and human imagination and capacity for blurring the lines of fact and stories is an exceptional one. As I said, fair enough to believe whatever you want, but such things should not then be brought into the public forum, to be used in schools, politics and laws.

I already said I agree with you on that. It should not be brought into schools, I would not vote for that anti abortionist Mogg.

You don't need faith to do that

You don't need faith/religion for any of it. Religion exists for two reasons, to control and to bring comfort/explanation to the things that frighten people. In the modern society, we shouldn't have need for either of those things. We should be able to build society on an equal bases, whilst searching for our own (proven) answers to how the world works. Religion will always hinder that.

"But lets say it does and I still happily do it, why do you care? How can this possibly affect you to the point that you feel it's fine to insult women who do it? "

I don't think it's fine to insult women who do it. But I care because I care about other women. And I don't like the idea of perpetuating anything which is used as a tool to oppress women,

And that is why you cannot expect people to not disrespect religion. Always interfering in things it has no right being a part of - humanity will never progress whilst religion has such power.

Not only religion though. There are plenty worse lobbying our government than the Christians . Humanity will not progress if people don't love for others what they love for themselves.

I don't think religion hinders scientific advancement (well apart from about 3 'scientists' who don't believe in climate change and the odd fool)

I personally am not using religion to comfort me because I don't understand the world, I understand the world fine.

I don't think religion hinders scientific advancement (well apart from about 3 'scientists' who don't believe in climate change and the odd fool)

Stem Cell research?

Is stem cell research not advancing because of religion? I thought that was to do with the possible ethical issues of having children for bi products?

Sashh - they are not saying they won't do business, just that they won't shake hands. When I last looked at UK contract law, this wasn't a necessary condition for doing deals. And even if it were, it's nothing to do with thinking women shouldn't be working.