To judge this woman?

[moralberyll]

Leaving the local maternity unit today and a heavily pregnant woman who is obviously a patient as she was wearing a dressing gown, slippers and pyjamas was standing right near the doorway smoking a cigarette, there is a big sign up saying 'no smoking on campus'. Aibu to judge her that she is not only putting her own baby at risk but she wants to put other people's baby's at risk from secondhand smoke as well? I would definitely have said something if i were leaving the unit with my newborn baby!

I joined just to answer this question. 10 years ago I was that woman. At eight and a half months pregnant, having not drank or smoked, I started bleeding heavily and was rushed to the hospital. They kept me 2 days and sent me home without a sonogram. I kept bleeding and going back for a week until a doctor finally gave me my sonogram and discovered my waters had broken. They brought on inducement and left me in labour for 3 days at which point I had a nervous breakdown and had a cigarette round the back of the hospital in the rain in tears. After 3 days they finally gave me a cesarean. My child was born low birth weight due to the hospital wasting more than a week to save her. Don't judge if you do not know all the facts.

Her body, her choice
I can guarantee you smug dirty look wont make anyone quit
Didnt make me, in fact i laughed at those stupid enough to say something to me

There's an awful lot of denial of fact going on - but then addiction does that, sadly. There's an awful lot of children going without and suffering because their parents are hooked on tobacco and put their cravings and lack of self control before the needs of their children. These are the children that statistically tend to have poor antenatal care generally never so suffer disadvantage in utero. They then go on to be children who are much more likely to suffer respiratory and ent problems with recurring chest infections and bronchitis. They are the children that smell - and try as you might it is impossible for them not to reek of stale tobacco. Socially that is not a good thing.
Financially tobacco is expensive- what is a packet nowadays? £5 or £6 for twenty? If you're 'only' smoking 5 a day that's still a lot of money in a year. If you're smoking ten a day that's £35 a week. There are many children missing out financially because parents prefer to spend money on their habit rather than give their children the essentials/treats/an extra boost. £35 a week buys a lot of fresh fruit, pays for a good few dance or tennis lessons and adds up quickly to a really nice birthday party or a decent winter coat and boots.
Then there's the increased risk of burns, of house fires, of SIDS and of the children beginning smoking at a young age thus perpetuating the cycle of disadvantage. Nasty stuff tobacco.
Should we judge smokers ? Absolutely. Should it be harder to access smoking products to deter people who can't or won't see the damage it causes? Absolutely. Should there be good stop smoking support? There is but you have to want to give up and put your own and your children's welfare above your addiction.

In Australia (NSW) it is illegal to smoke anywhere on hospital grounds, school grounds, inside all public buildings, public building entrances, all public eating places, correctional facilities (gaols), in motor vehicles with children, public outdoor playgrounds, swimming pools, major sport venues, and public transport stops/waiting areas.

I'm sure it is a public health trend that other nations will eventually follow.

She was being unreasonable to smoke next to a no smoking sign. As a cancer survivor, I can not and will not condone smoking under any circumstances, pregnant or not.

As someone with lung disease (caused by chemo drugs not smoking) smoking right at doors pisses me off. It sets of essentially a severe asthma attack and god help me as a hormonal new mum coughing away on a c section scar, I will explode. I'm having a section next month so this could happen.

It's not hard to move a few metres away and be aware of the direction of the wind if you insist on smoking. Either no smoking needs strictly enforcing or smoking shelters should be present as sick adults and children with lung problems can then avoid it.

Well it's more like £10 s packet Crumbs but I'm sure you know that officially anyway my corner shop sells packets under the counter for £3.

I don't smoke btw and quit when I found out I was pregnant .

CreamCol0uredP0nies - PencilsinSpace actually people do care about all those things. I genuinely want to know what health professionals and others can do to get the message across that smoking isn't good for you and that smoking while pregnant isn't good for you or your unborn child. There is support available but clearly that doesn't work for everyone. What would help?

It's not a case of 'getting the message across'. Everybody knows the message inside out and back to front (even silverbell, behind her bravado ). What is needed is proper advice on how to quit and good quality, non-judgmental support to maximise the chances of a successful quit. Even with those in place, success rates will be low because successful quit rates are always low.

CO testing of all pregnant women is making a big difference. When smokers are identified they are given brief advice and referred on an opt out basis to stop smoking services. It has almost doubled the number of pregnant women who successfully quit where it has been rolled out. I know a lot of people don't like the scheme because they think it implies they are lying about not smoking. This is daft because the MW know the figures, they know that 9/10 of women they test will be non-smokers. This approach works partly because by testing everybody it removes the stigma. If pregnant smokers weren't judged so very harshly it may not be necessary as they would find it easier to ask for help in the first place. You can of course opt out of the test and that is fine. What is deeply unhelpful is when people get outraged because how very dare the MW suggest they might be a filthy smoker and what's more lie about it? That just increases the stigma and shame for pg smokers all over again.

Another scheme showing very promising results is offering financial incentives. This is now being rolled out in a few areas. This pisses people off even more than the CO test thing, but we're talking about what works here, not what makes non-smokers feel better. It makes sense if you remember that smokers, including those who are pregnant, are overwhelmingly likely to be on a low income. The stress and financial pressure of preparing for a new baby in often less than ideal circumstances can make it incredibly difficult for a smoker to even contemplate quitting. A few vouchers just at the right time can ease that somewhat and give the woman a bit of headspace. Even if you think that's bollocks and these are just selfish horrible women who care more about a few vouchers than the health of their babies, so what? It works, babies are born healthier and it's cost effective.

There are things we could be doing much better.

ASH recently published a report that showed there was a big gap in training for MW and other HCP around supporting pregnant women to quit. While staff are clear on the risks of smoking, they lack the skills to communicate sensitively with pregnant women and actually help them to quit. The study also found knowledge gaps around the use of NRT and ecigs in pregnancy.

We need to be making more of harm reduction for those women who find it the hardest to quit. The Smoking In Pregnancy Challenge Group has recently published sensible guidance on the use of ecigs in pregnancy.

We need to be investing much more in perinatal mental health services. People with MH issues are not only far more likely to smoke, but smoke more heavily, be more addicted and find it harder to quit. This is not a cheap option but it would make a big difference not only to smoking rates but to the mental wellbeing of all pregnant women.

And of course there are things everybody could do to help right here on MN - cut the judgment and offer support instead. I was reading a thread yesterday where a pregnat woman had a very high BMI and was feeling scared and judged and worried she would be seen as a bad person. Nobody went on that thread and called her names, bludgeoned her with the health risks, told her she should be ashamed. Instead, she got lots of supportive posts, encouragement and reassurance that she would not be judged by HCP. That's the way it should be, and it's the way it should be on smoking threads too.

I would not judge the woman for being a smoker. I understand it is an addiction. But I would judge her for smoking somewhere where other people have to pass, because even one lungful of smoke can trigger an asthma attack.

When the smoking ban came in, both dh's and my breathing problems cleared up magically. Before the ban there was literally nowhere in public I could go without having it triggered: I spent so much of my life feeling ill.

Under the smoking ban, a smoker has to stand out in the cold for the time it takes to finish a cigarette. Before the smoking ban, a person with a smoke allergy would have to spend all their time either in the cold or at home if they didn't want their allergy triggered, because smoke lingers. Public transport, taxis, restaurants, pubs, hospital waiting rooms- it's wonderful actually being able to access those without becoming ill.

That doesn't mean I regard smokers as an unclean underclass.. Just that smoke makes me ill and that that is rather more serious and lasts rather longer than the time it takes to smoke a cigarette outside. So yes, Green Tulips, I am very happy.

Of course, I'm not an expert. I think it would be great if we could get an actual expert on to talk about this

Putting everything else aside there's no excuse for smoking right under a no smoking sign and I'll judge the fuck out of that - at least go a few metres away from the door.

I'm a live and let live sort of person, people's life choices are their own business and as an ex-smoker myself (I gave up a few days before finding out I was pregnant for the first time) I'm not really in a position to judge anyone for choosing to smoke.
Having said that, the door into my local EPAU, where I am very much a regular having suffered miscarriage number 8 last month, is next to a bench where all the heavily pregnant smokers seem to congregate. It takes all my self restraint not to scream at them as I walk past. Hell yes I judge.

Hospitals have specific places for people to smoke. It's sad that she can't stop as her baby will suffer and it does seem selfish that she is inflicting it on others. I'm surprised one of the staff didn't say something.

If she's in a hospital gown then something terrible might have happened and her baby might not have survived. Or she might not be pregnant any more and may have already given birth. You don't know her circumstances so don't judge her, it's a waste of energy anyway. However smoking somewhere she shouldn't isn't OK especially around other pregnant women. So YANBU to ask her to move to the smoking area but YABU to judge her when you don't know her.

My mother smoked when pregnant with my brothers and I. Both parents smoked around us our entire childhood. We're all in our fifties now and guess what, we're still alive.

I've just read the whole 10 pages of this and I'm shocked at some of the things I've read! People saying basically that smokers have had bad lives and gone through hard times to be smokers, you are making smokers sound like low life scum of the earth! I completely understand the op and it's shouldn't be allowed anywhere on hospital grounds as there are people who are really ill and it can affect them, but that's not what everyone is saying. Do u cross the street if someone is smoking outside their house? Or a shop? Or a bank? I doubt it very much. Yes judge them for where they are smoking but not because they are a smoker

She was inconsiderate, but you know nothing about her.
Why do non smokers have to appease smokers all the time They don't. We've been treated like pariahs for years. I appreciate that people want non-smoking zones, but entirely non-smoking everything is a bit pants. If you drop a fag butt you can be fined £80, even if you're ankle-deep in fast food wrappers, sandwich packets and dog shit - some of which must have been dropped/left by non-smokers.
Fat people and smokers are the only people all the judgy brigade can have a pop at with impunity. I'm both.

Dont judge, you dont know the full story. I stopped smoking when I found out I was pregnant with my first daughter. My Dad took ill really suddenly when I was 32 weeks pregnant & died 3 weeks later. I ended up smoking as I couldnt handle the stress. Not an excuse & Im not proud of it but I did it & cant change it. I seen folk looking at me & judging me & it was horrible.

One sodding cigarette with make no difference!!!! Jesus Christ people!

I would have felt the same way.

There are numerous examples of people developing lung cancer from passive smoking. Roy Castle died from it. She is endangering her own body, her unborn baby and the health of anyone else near her. Not being unreasonable at all. Perhaps take nurse from said hospital with you before approaching, as per clear signs. Unbelievably irresponsible and selfish behaviour by this woman.

I'm judging you moralberyll for not knowing that the plural of "baby" is "babies"

Are we the unclean nasty underclass that is portrayed. Yes, silverbell64, and you also make disgusting choices for your children. It's awful that you're bragging about smoking in pregnancy.

What a shit mother.