To think if a boy hits my daughter then yes it is different to if a girl does

[ouchthathurtsabit]

Preparing to be flamed as this is a controversial issue.

I'm a mum of a girl and 2 boys. My daughter came home with a red mark on her face saying that a boy- known for hurting others- had punched her in the face because she had gone in front of him in the queue. The boy was spoken to and it was dealt with. The children are 8 and in year 3.

So I spoke to the teacher and said I was glad it was dealt with and that I was sure my daughter would be fine but it would probably be helpful for this boy to know that it's unacceptable to hurt or hit anyone but that hitting a girl in the face is really not acceptable.

The teacher then had a massive rant at me saying that there is absolutely no difference and that's a very dangerous thing to be teaching children and it would not be an appropriate thing to say in school.

Whist I do understand what she was tryouts g to say, I do try and explain to my boys that In our society, no matter what age you are, if you hit a female then it is completely unacceptable and that no matter what a girl does or says to you then if you respond with physical violence then it's not acceptable. Males are generally bigger and stronger. Am I completely wrong in thinking at 8 years old this could be mentioned? Because I don't know! I know if one of my boys hit a girl in the face I would be a tiny bit more mortified than if it was a girl

I disagree I think it's ok to use violence when attacked. It's the real world. If someone attacks me I will defend myself back. If someone hits my child I would tell them to wallop them back. Running and telling a teacher is useless in my experience and it's not real life. You go round hitting people you can expect them to retaliate as adults so learning that as a kid is a good lesson.

My children are not and have never been confused. My daughters would hit back another girl. My son would hit back another boy. Neither of them would retaliate against someone smaller or weaker and my son would never hit a girl.

Contrary to what many pearl clutchers may think about that message, my children have never ever been violent, are popular, gentle and caring. Only two incidents in 11 years. Both involving my son. Once a boy punched him in the nose for splashing him in a puddle. My son walloped him back. Boy never touched him again although boy repeatedly picked on other children who did not retaliate with one moving schools to get away from him. The other, a girl from the year younger than him whacked him round the head with a tennis racket during an argument over the game. He didn't hit her back because she was smaller than him. I did not minimise the incident because she was a girl, the mum was called, the girl got in trouble. No confusion from my son, no regrets and I would have been horrified had he whacked the girl back because she was smaller.

I think talking to kids as young as 8 about abusive relationships is a good thing as long as it is done in an age appropriate way too.

And women are more likely to be victims.

This isn't true - men are more likely to be the perpetrators and victims of violent crime.

I have a son and teach him not to hit anyone for any reason. There's no reason to say "especially not girls".

Men who grow up hitting may end up hitting women in a domestic setting which is awful obviously and does involve an imbalance of power usually.

But if they grow up to hit/fight men that's no better a way to live. You don't resolve arguments with fists. Ever.

Men can be victims of domestic violence as much as women can

No they can't.

Where do people get this shit?

Are the parents on board with the school and apologised to you?

Ouch I think that you are right, much of your thinking on this stems from the fact that she is your youngest child and that her two much elder and bigger siblings are boys.

You are used to thinking of your DD as smaller and weaker than boys.

I have 9 yo boy girl twins. They get on very well and are extremely close but like lots of siblings have the odd argument. I have zero tolerance on violence.

If he hits her the punishment is exactly the same as if she hits him.

They are just about the same height and weight (although he is actually considerably stronger than her.)

I'm not used to thinking of my girl as small and weak in comparison to her brother. In fact last time a boy hit her at school she gave him such a verbal dressing down he cried.

I haven't said it's worse for boys to hit girls. I have said that it's wrong to hit at all.

I have said it's particularly awful to attack someone weaker than you.

Both my DC are aware that domestic violence occurs between grown ups and have been given the same message - if your partner hits you, even once, leave.

They are aware that punching is a serious thing, that in the adult world punching leads to assault charges (despite what you see in the movies)

I think you need to think about this some more. What would your attitude be if the school rang to say your DD had hit a boy? Or if the school range to say a girl had hit one of your sons?

And also, teaching them NEVER EVER EVER to be the instigator I'd like to add to my post as that is also the message I tell them. Three kids and so far no problems.

Splendide

Yes, from other men.

Its wrong to make that distinction between boys and girls. Your making out that girls are inherently weaker and its more acceptable for boys to boys.

Teach children that all hitting is wrong, there is no, but if its a girl....

"This isn't true - men are more likely to be the perpetrators and victims of violent crime."

Not in domestic relationships and women are far far more likely to die as a result of male violence.

This isn't true - men are more likely to be the perpetrators and victims of violent crime.

Men are more likely to be the victim of violence from a stranger.

Yes op, like you say, as adults. It should be the sort of thing that is 'taught' by the family/friends/society as children get older. A school would be totally inappropriately placed to be teaching children that violence is not acceptable, but it's even more unacceptable if it's towards a girl.

I mean, I don't even want to imagine my reaction if my DS being punched and kicked in the face by that girl was brushed off as not as bad, and that's essentially what you are saying.

The fact that men tend to be bigger and stronger than women has nothing to do with this, and neither does the fact that women commit fewer violent crimes. Should a male burglar be more severely punished than a female burglar just because more men commit burglary than women? Should a large woman who hits a small man be treated leniently because she's a woman so it's not as bad as a man hitting a woman?

People should be punished for hitting others. The severity of the punishment should be determined by the severity of the injury and by the intent and any extenuating circumstances or provocation. Not determined by the sex of either the victim or the perpetrator.

"Men are more likely to be the victim of violence from a stranger."

If you discount rape and sexual offences and all domestic violence then I guess you can somehow skew it to make out males are equally victims yeah

People shouldn't initiate violence full stop, regardless of who they are doing it towards.

But "you must never hit a girl under any circumstances" is bullshit, there are obvious self-defence scenarios where this is clearly not a reasonable guideline. And anyone (of either sex) with common sense should expect that if they provoke somebody bigger and/or stronger than them into violence that they are going to get hurt. However pushing into a queue should never be a provocation of violence.

And women are more likely to be victims.

This isn't true - men are more likely to be the perpetrators and victims of violent crime.

If you don't count dv and sexual assault I suppose.

No, not if you don't count them.

I think it's ok to use violence when attacked.

I agree. DS1 is huge. He's taller than I am (5'7") at 11. He's always been taller than everyone in his class. I spent the first three years of his school life reminding him to be gentle, be kind, never hit, never use unkind hands. He went up to Junior school and had a few ding dongs where other kids hit him and instead of defending himself, he'd stand there and take it.

We spent years reminding him to be gentle, to the point where he wasn't confident defending himself against bullies. That's shitty parenting on our part, tbh. There's an enormous difference between teaching your child they are allowed to protect themselves and teaching them to cause trouble and instigate fights - something DS1 has never done. Since we revised the rule and spent time talking about protecting himself, he's only had one more ding dong with a lad who hit him, DS1 punched him square in the stomach and floored him. School wanted to punish both children equally and I refused on the grounds that DS1 would never have begun that fight. He simply defended himself against an attack. If I had my time again I'd have taught him that much, much sooner.

If you discount rape and sexual offences and all domestic violence

Now why on earth would anyone do that?

I guess you can somehow skew it to make out males are equally victims yeah

Theoretically speaking, yes.

But again, why would anyone do that? What would be the point?

Violence is overwhelmingly committed by men but it's a fallacy to say that is mostly directed at women.

I feel very strongly that the key thing is that men need to stop being violent. I have no idea how we achieve this but the "men don't hit women" rule has been around forever and it's clearly not working.

Ferrets, I am a feminist. I am absolutely a feminist and I abhor domestic violence and I don't at all buy into "women are just as bad". They are not.

But it's unhelpful to throw incorrect stats around.

I think your way of thinking is quite dangerous OP. You're setting girls up to be weak damsels in distress. All that serves to do is make girls feel weak.

Better to teach girls that they are on an equal footing boys - that they can't be hit by boys and can't hit boys.

Nobody has said that girls should be allowed to hit boys Shum.

1/4 of women have been victims of DV. Most of those will not be one offs. So several attacks. Additional 1/4 women will have been sexually assaulted and one of five will be raped. And again most of those will not be one offs. I don't believe it is even physically possible for men (the majority of which are heterosexual) to have experienced as many violent attacks.

Actually I don't believe for a second that one of four adult men is walking around sustaining multiple physical attacks. From where, from who?