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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To be annoyed at this feminist

530 replies

PlayOnWurtz · 05/09/2017 08:01

I happily call myself a feminist and will enter into discussions about it freely in real life and online. I got into one conversation about appearance and politics and how you rationalise body hair removal with feminism. I said I simply feel unclean, it's nothing to do with politics or being oppressed if I don't remove armpit and leg hair I feel like I need a wash.

Cue me being told that I clearly missed the memo on western socialization and oppression and that me removing body hair to feel clean wouldn't happen if I hadn't been socialised to feel this way Hmm erm no love I feel like I need a ruddy good wash if I don't shave I'm not oppressed....

AIBU to be annoyed and more than a bit Hmm

OP posts:
JacquesHammer · 05/09/2017 11:39

Women's bodily functions are routinely considered unclean, and even dangerous in most cultures and religions. We should be speaking out against this as much as we can, not colluding with it!

Absolutely but then I'm not sure that on a personal level the two are mutually exclusive.

I would argue until the cows come home against the stigma of menstruation being unclean. However that doesn't mean that on a personal level removing hair to deal with horrendous periods is colluding to that paradigm

7Days · 05/09/2017 11:40

Why are people so shocked that cultural norms exist? It's not an insult.
You poo in the toilet, we actively teach or kids that.
Women had bubble perms in 1988 - a mere 6 years later many had the Rachel cut. Did everyone individually, independently, decide which looked better with no regerence to anything oytside themselves?
Its not saying people are brainwashed if they are influenced by societal norms.

WishfulThanking · 05/09/2017 11:47

I notice OP hasn't been back after posting about her conversation that never happened. Hmm

MadamMinacious · 05/09/2017 11:50

Just had a read through some of this and honestly some of you are so defensive about the fact you shave and feel like feminists are causing you problems. Like this : I like that in the argument of feminism people like to tell you how to feel. YOU ARE WRONG IF YOU DONT LIKE THE FEELING OF BODY HAIR AND ITS BECAUSE OF SOCIETY NOT BECAUSE OF HOW YOU FEEL. YOUR FEELINGS ARE WRONG AND CANT POSSIBLY BE YIUR OWN YOU ARE BRAINWASHED.

In capitals, no less! You don't actually have to shout. We are all socialised to some extent and we think things we do are just down to our feelings but it is disingenuous and naive to think you are immune to messages which have been directed towards women for many years. Not brainwashed as such but naturally susceptible to repeated images and messages. There is not one single feminist boycotting the shaving accessories aisle in your local supermarket, no feminist is stopping you shaving. You are entitled to shave whatever you please on your own body but guess what ... feminists are entitled to believe that this is a message sold to women and choose not to shave as a result. It's a pretty educated belief not without substantial grounding.

The fact that women are arguing about whether or not women should shave and feel the need to defend their choice to or not to is utterly ridiculous but I guess people will tend to feel defensive about being told they are 'unclean' or 'misguided' the language being used is emotive. Shave, don't shave I don't give a toss but don't judge other women - don't we have enough people doing that for us. It's all such bullshit.

MadamMinacious · 05/09/2017 11:51

I notice OP hasn't been back after posting about her conversation that never happened.

That's a strong possibility.

Louiselouie0890 · 05/09/2017 11:54

Your friend is right. Not that I care I'm still shaving lol

WishfulThanking · 05/09/2017 11:54

There are a lot of women strangely and violently opposed to feminism. When I realised this, I gave up.

I have other battles to fight... I'm not going to try and help people that don't even give a toss.

mrsmuddlepies · 05/09/2017 11:54

Replying to Bertrand.
Its the cliquy, exclusivity element I object to and the reference to sides. I complained about the use of the derogatory term 'Menz'. I was told by a poster that I am not on their side (feminist chat side, I presume).
You defended their position by writing 'So it was sides as in feminists and non feminists, rather than different categories of feminist'.
My point was who gets to decide who is a feminist or non feminist (your choice of words). It smacks of policing on what should be an open discussion.
I am a feminist and I still don't see how you can decide that I am not allowed to belong.
The prefix non - person has some pretty horrible, discriminatory precedents in history. Describing someone as a non feminist is dangerous exclusivity in my opinion.

StealthPolarBear · 05/09/2017 11:55

Has the op confirmed whether she shaves her head?
I shave my legs and armpits. Much prefer it. I'm under no illusions that it's social conditioning.

Lovingmybear2 · 05/09/2017 11:57

some women have it all painfully waxed off to look like porn stars

I agree with your post until this ^^ I wax, it's no longer painful and I don't feel like a poem star I just like to feel hair free. Nothing against poem stars either. Their choice not mine.

Brekon no one is claiming not to be influenced by society are they? We all are. Those of us who wax/shave accept this but it's still a valid and personal choice and one is no less or more feminist hairy or shaved.

I dislike a full bush, on me as I find it unnatractive just like I know I look tired without makeup and use it. So what? It's not a big issue for me as a woman.

My teen dds shave and I think from their conversations that's the norm now For that age but these girls and their friends would consider themselves total feminists.

Lovingmybear2 · 05/09/2017 12:02

wishful

Maybe your trying to help people understand things they are clearly too thick to grasp Wink actually,you know,pisses other women off?

I don't know any woman strangely and violently opposed to feminism but perhaps their views are slightly different to your 'battle' approach

WishfulThanking · 05/09/2017 12:07

Maybe they are Wink

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 05/09/2017 12:09

Loving, how long does it take for waxing to stop hurting, in your experience?

MadamMinacious · 05/09/2017 12:15

I don't know any woman strangely and violently opposed to feminism

I do. You may not know any but they do exist.

JacquesHammer · 05/09/2017 12:17

Loving, how long does it take for waxing to stop hurting, in your experience?

I think that's a bit of a difficult question to answer because of course people have different pain thresholds. Waxing has never been something I find anything other than mildly uncomfortable

Flyingflipflop · 05/09/2017 12:17

I wax, it's no longer painful and I don't feel like a poem star I just like to feel hair free.

I wandered as lonely as a hair
That floats over a waxed foof
When all at once I saw a crowd
A host, of golden pubes

Sorry Wordsworth......

Lovingmybear2 · 05/09/2017 12:27

Omg Smile I like that Flying much better then my boring kitchen poem of all tidy up blah blah.

Wishful Grin

countess the first time was years ago, waxing I mean!, and it hurt a bit but gets better and better and now it's a mild tickle and strangely pleasent. I don't get out much!

I waxed dhs back for him early summer and he actually cried. Grin

Lovingmybear2 · 05/09/2017 12:31

Oh I get they exist madam they write in the fail but I assumed they were just doing that for the money.

I meant in RL although you do get threads where usually a mil thinks the family men deserve more food etc. My elderly aunt told me I was lucky my dh got the train to work so I could have the car, we had 4 kids at different schools. Bless her. Think those attitudes are dying out hopefully Wink

BertrandRussell · 05/09/2017 12:36

Mrsmuddlepies.
1.I wasn't defending. I was trying to explain.
2.Why does someone disagreeing with you mean you think you can't post? Why didn't you engage with all the other people who replied to you rather than coming on to another thread and saying you were "chased off" by one post you didn't like.
3.Comparing non feminist with non person is a bit of a stretch. What about non Catholic. Non Eu citizen. Non believer. To name but 3.
4.There are some people who post on the feminist boards who come pretty close to non-people, believe me! They get banned pretty quickly though.

ElBandito · 05/09/2017 12:41

Has the op confirmed whether she shaves her head?

No OP lit the fuse and retired to a safe distance.

Todaywashorrible · 05/09/2017 12:45

You feel unclean because society has conditioned you to feel that way unshaven. Surely you can see that??
I do shave btw, I hate leg hair etc but also recognise why I hate it.

ALittleBitOfButter · 05/09/2017 12:58

I don't shave at all. I wish more women would join me so I don't feel like a pariah.

My legs are hairy and they are womanly, because I have a woman's body.

Original poster
PlayOnWurtz · 05/09/2017 12:59

No. Sorry I'm at work.

I need to wash my hair daily as I feel unclean if I dont. By unclean I mean unwashed. It's not a conditioning thing it's a personal hygiene issue!

OP posts:
PlinkyTheFairyWitch · 05/09/2017 13:00

I've worn capri pants with my hairy legs and not one person gave a shiny shit. Unless they only started slagging me off once I'd left

Of bloody course we're conditioned, everyone is. I don't shave my legs cos I'm making a feminist point, plus I have really sensitive skin and just end up with rashes all over the place. I still don't like the way they look. Sometimes I sit in bed with DH, who has much hairier legs than me, and wonder why I feel his legs are perfectly fine and mine aren't.

When's the last time any of us saw any woman in any prominent position with body hair? We don't ever see it, or if we do, it's on a sidebar of shame in some rag somewhere. Actual people in our actual everyday lives, yes sometimes. But the overwhelming message society sends us is that women should be hairless except for our heads.

What I find upsetting is all these women who hate themselves when they don't do it (look like the meeja says you should), criticise themselves, put themselves down. I hate it. Little messages everywhere that your natural state as a woman is not good enough. Fuck all that noise.

StealthPolarBear · 05/09/2017 13:03

But presumably you also wash the rest of yo every day.I agree, wash my hair every day else I feel greasy.