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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To be annoyed at this feminist

530 replies

PlayOnWurtz · 05/09/2017 08:01

I happily call myself a feminist and will enter into discussions about it freely in real life and online. I got into one conversation about appearance and politics and how you rationalise body hair removal with feminism. I said I simply feel unclean, it's nothing to do with politics or being oppressed if I don't remove armpit and leg hair I feel like I need a wash.

Cue me being told that I clearly missed the memo on western socialization and oppression and that me removing body hair to feel clean wouldn't happen if I hadn't been socialised to feel this way Hmm erm no love I feel like I need a ruddy good wash if I don't shave I'm not oppressed....

AIBU to be annoyed and more than a bit Hmm

OP posts:
Walkingdead11 · 05/09/2017 13:04

PlinkyTheFairyWitch

I agree, men do not get this shit about body hair!!

user1471596238 · 05/09/2017 13:12

I would say that apart from shaving facial hair, men are also now more inclined to shave areas that they might consider 'unsightly' such as chests, backs etc. I wonder therefore whether the argument about 'conditioning' could be thrown open to a wider debate about modern, Western societal pressures and norms. Personally. I think that it should be down to the freedom of the individual.

Cantthinkofagood1 · 05/09/2017 13:14

I agree with you to some extent. Leg hair is definitely socially conditioned, I don't think you can argue you feel unclean with a bit of hair on your leg. But armpit hair - you sweat there and the hair would trap sweat. My ex used to complain that he was too sweaty/smelly in summer so I told him to shave his pits and he would feel better. He basically wouldn't do it because men don't shave theirs. So I would argue that actually it is cleaner to shave them, and its men that wont do that because its not 'manly' enough. But yeah fanjo, leg, facial. All socially conditioned.

DontCallMeCharlotte · 05/09/2017 13:25

As a PP said earlier "if women in the West didn't routinely shave their legs, it wouldn't be a thing".

It is very much not a thing peculiar to the West.

Lovingmybear2 · 05/09/2017 13:29

plinkly

By your post you are far more upset than me and I wax/shave for meas I prefer it.

You sound like you don't wax/shave for society in general not for you.

I don't hate myself hairy or not. God grief how OTT.

That's not being a feminist that's being a martyr.

Lovingmybear2 · 05/09/2017 13:31

And I disagree men don't. I waxed dhs back as he hates back hair.

Personal choice doncha know

Lovingmybear2 · 05/09/2017 13:33

i wish more women would join me so I don't feel like a pariah

Why? Your choice their choice. Stand by your choices. Each to own.

DrHorribletookmycherry · 05/09/2017 13:35

Your hair. Not my care. But it would take someone with no ability to reflect to not recognise the conditioning on personal presentation for the benefit of others rather than actual hygiene.

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 05/09/2017 13:40

Women who keep their hair are much more conditioned, trying to make a point, than the ones who shave it seems

Late to this and it may have been part of a bigger insightful post...but this is really daft

I dont keep my body hair to make a point, i shave my pits and legs but in the winter i dont tend to

Lovingmybear2 · 05/09/2017 13:40

This thread going in circles.

Yes we are all conditioned. Yes we all make choices, yes some people feel unclean with body hair and those feelings are as valid as those whose pits and bushes run wild.

Shaved or not doesn't make you a better or worse feminist.

BertrandRussell · 05/09/2017 13:41

"And I disagree men don't. I waxed dhs back as he hates back hair."
It's interesting that one man's experience always seems to invalidate an entire generation of women's!

PlinkyTheFairyWitch · 05/09/2017 13:51

By your post you are far more upset than me and I wax/shave for meas I prefer it.

You sound like you don't wax/shave for society in general not for you.

I don't hate myself hairy or not. God grief how OTT.

That's not being a feminist that's being a martyr.

Well, you completely misread me, didn't you? Good grief indeed.

sleighbellend · 05/09/2017 13:52

If I am a feminist but choose to dislike choice feminism, is that ok because it's my choice?

ponderingprobably · 05/09/2017 14:12

Yes we are all conditioned. Yes we all make choices, yes some people feel unclean with body hair and those feelings are as valid as those whose pits and bushes run wild

I think where it gets annoying, for those who don't shave, is an insistence not shaving is unclean. Or an implication being unshaven is unattractive. It is when people, in seeking to defend their own shaving, imply that they've made the right choice in terms of hygiene and looking attractive. When in reality there are valid alternative approaches to staying clean, hygienic and looking attractive.

BertrandRussell · 05/09/2017 14:17

Yes, the implication that those of us who don't wax are going round with pubic hair caked with dried menstrual blood is a little irritating.

ponderingprobably · 05/09/2017 14:17

And as for shaving and feminism it is the above inference, the negative societal attitudes towards women being hairy, that gives women less choice, not more.

I mean how many magazine and newspaper headlines say, 'Look at this famous woman, with makeup and hairless legs, armpits and bikini line'? Yet how many headlines might point out the opposite?

Lovingmybear2 · 05/09/2017 14:21

Bertrand I never said one mans experience invalidates a generation of wonen? How utterly ridiculous. Just saying lots of men also wax.

plinky apologise if I did it can be easily done on here Flowers

ponderingprobably · 05/09/2017 14:22

And why the fashions for clothes that expose hairy areas, h leg swimsuits, sleeveless tops, when society ridicules women who do not remove the hair? We have everyday clothes and swim suits that are designed so they expose hair and are shamed if we do not remove it.

ponderingprobably · 05/09/2017 14:28

I wonder if the hairless preference for women is linked to societal obsession with women being youthful? Being hairless is what females are when they are prepubescent.

Walkingdead11 · 05/09/2017 14:38

I think they call that paedophilia?? Which is why I personally find the completely hairless fanny trend a bit disconcerting!

Flyingflipflop · 05/09/2017 14:57

So adults who like other adults without hair on their genital regions are now paedophiles?

Wow.

Walkingdead11 · 05/09/2017 15:01

No of course not! It's just always flummoxed me why women, usually young women spend so much time getting rid of their pubic hair?? Especially when it starts to grow back almost immediately and seems a relentless task.

ponderingprobably · 05/09/2017 15:35

So adults who like other adults without hair on their genital regions are now paedophiles?

Talking about a societal preference for women looking very young is not meant to accuse individuals. The societal preference for hairless women does make you think though.

Walkingdead11 · 05/09/2017 15:59

Yes, I've heard men say they wouldn't touch a hairy fanny....like it's diseased somehow and that is very worrying.

Flyingflipflop · 05/09/2017 16:03

Why is it worrying? Just because a bloke doesn't like hairy women doesn't mean he's lusting after 8 year olds or whatever.

It's quite simple. If women doesn't want to remove hair don't. If men don't want to go with hairy women, they're under no obligation.

To try to make them out to be paedophiles or whatever is just ridiculous.

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