Please or to access all these features

Add post

Watch this thread

Save thread

Start a new thread

Flip thread

Hide thread

My feed

Active Unanswered threads

Getting started FAQ's

Unanswered threads Acronyms Talk guidelines

Hide shortcut buttons

Talk

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Flip

1 2 ··· 6 7 8 ··· 21 22

Original poster

To be annoyed at this feminist

530 replies

PlayOnWurtz · 05/09/2017 08:01

I happily call myself a feminist and will enter into discussions about it freely in real life and online. I got into one conversation about appearance and politics and how you rationalise body hair removal with feminism. I said I simply feel unclean, it's nothing to do with politics or being oppressed if I don't remove armpit and leg hair I feel like I need a wash.

Cue me being told that I clearly missed the memo on western socialization and oppression and that me removing body hair to feel clean wouldn't happen if I hadn't been socialised to feel this way erm no love I feel like I need a ruddy good wash if I don't shave I'm not oppressed....

AIBU to be annoyed and more than a bit

OP posts:

MaryLennoxsScowl · 05/09/2017 10:21

Men choosing to shave their faces/grow beards is not the same. There are plenty of male visual representations/role models for both and neither is seen as 'unclean' or 'dirty'.

Amanduh · 05/09/2017 10:22

I like that in the argument of feminism people like to tell you how to feel. YOU ARE WRONG IF YOU DONT LIKE THE FEELING OF BODY HAIR AND ITS BECAUSE OF SOCIETY NOT BECAUSE OF HOW YOU FEEL. YOUR FEELINGS ARE WRONG AND CANT POSSIBLY BE YIUR OWN YOU ARE BRAINWASHED. And then by saying you dont like how it makes your own body feel, you are projecting that therefore other women who don't mind it are unclean and you hate women..? Ffs. Oh the irony. Yanbu OP, you can treat your body in whichever way you feel, that's surely the whole point.

FrenchJunebug · 05/09/2017 10:22

I don't shave my armpits and legs and I don't feel dirty. If anything this hair is there for a reason. I do think you feeling dirty with armpits and legs hair is a societal construct.

ponderingprobably · 05/09/2017 10:23

Women who keep their hair are much more conditioned, trying to make a point, than the ones who shave it seems.

This is unfair. Some women keep their hair because they have been advised by HCP not to shave it. In the 80s, as a teen I really was not bothered unless I was to be seen in public with it. High leg swimming costumes were infuriating. Nearly everyone I knew only shaved in summer. The boyfriends I had did not seem at all shocked by body hair. It did not occur to me they would be. It was only at university that some of my female friends started talking about shaving because they would be seeing the boyfriend. I was not completely sold. In the early 2000s everything in fashion seemed to get very skimpy, strapless, one shoulder etc. Everyone seemed really tanned and hairless.

BertrandRussell · 05/09/2017 10:24

It is also in the interests of big business that women feel that their bodies are unclean and smelly. That way the can sell us scented panty liners......

Women's bodily functions are routinely considered unclean, and even dangerous in most cultures and religions. We should be speaking out against this as much as we can, not colluding with it!

mrsmuddlepies · 05/09/2017 10:24

What difference does it make if they put 'you are not on our side' in quotation marks or not? The use of the word 'side' suggests feminism is exclusive to the few. I stand my my view that true feminism should be inclusive and embrace debate. It should aim to involve all women, not exclude those who do not echo the views of the exclusive 'our side' only.

coddiwomple · 05/09/2017 10:25

also, if I was shaving my legs because my husband prefers smooth legs.. so what? Why immediately jumping to women being abused or oppressed by their husband? Sometimes you do things for your partner, or because of them. Again, so what?
I hate moustaches, so my DH would not have one. Because we are a couple, we do things for each other, and we compromise. It works very well.

Ok it would be different if I felt I had to shave or something in order to get a husband, but that's such a different reasoning and situation. Having long or short hair style because your partner prefers you that way, what's wrong with that?

Walkingdead11 · 05/09/2017 10:27

I do find the shaving of pubic hair to be absurd....and a modern phenomenon to be sure. Try arguing that though and a public flogging will ensue.

backOffSunshine · 05/09/2017 10:27

BertrandRussell

You realise that the same companies 'prey' on men as well. Men are the largest spenders on fragrances (35-39 IIRC).

I can't think of a single male bodily function that is considered clean or laudible.

This is not a feminist issue. Step away from the dungarees!

ponderingprobably · 05/09/2017 10:28

Yeah but coddi, if you let hair grow properly, it is soft not stubbly.

BertrandRussell · 05/09/2017 10:29

"What difference does it make if they put 'you are not on our side' in quotation marks or not?"

That was one person. And what I think she was trying to get across is that usually, people who focus on one word rather than the subject at large are non feminists trying to derail. So it was sides as in feminists and non feminists, rather than different categories of feminist. As I read it anyway.

AnWhat about all the others who "didn't^ say that, though? You seem to be condemning the whole chat room because you didn't like what one person said.

Pensionista · 05/09/2017 10:30

MarylennoxsScowal.......well I think men with bushy beards filled with bits of food looks disgusting and makes me feel sick. Thats "unclean" to me.

ponderingprobably · 05/09/2017 10:30

I can't think of a single male bodily function that is considered clean or laudible

Yeah but smelling is seen as 'manly' and attractive, in a rough and ready way, for men. How many women go on about rugby players? You get adverts showing sweaty men in an attractive way.

Pensionista · 05/09/2017 10:31

Amanduh..........SPOT ON .

ponderingprobably · 05/09/2017 10:32

...it would be good if the media portrayed sweaty hairy women as attractive in the same way. I'm trying to picture it. It is difficult.

FizzyGreenWater · 05/09/2017 10:32

Women who keep their hair are much more conditioned, trying to make a point, than the ones who shave it seems.

No, it doesn't seem - not unless you really do need to tie yourself in absolute knots trying to make it so that women removing their hair is somehow the natural default. It's just not - neither is it for men - it's not the norm for any human. The hair is there for a purpose. It's fine to remove it for any reason you want, but to try and maintain that it's because it's sweaty and dirty to have it is simply incorrect, that's all. And it helps to say that, because it underlines that - just like men - it's ok to have the hair, and it's ok to remove the hair. Not removing hair does not make you 'dirty'. That's the 'conditioning' bit that I think it's right to object to.

I don't remove my hair because:

for underarms, it feels drier, cleanier and less sweaty not to;
for the pubic region, it's far healthier not to - I don't fancy lots of ingrown hairs and spots, thanks (and ummmmm at the person mentioning menstruation - I'm not quite sure what to say to the implication that if you have hair there it's going to be covered in blood - well mine isn't, because I keep myself clean).
for legs and everywhere else really - it isn't something I want to spend time on. I sometimes shave my legs in the summer, I quite like doing it for a change - but it's a time-consuming pain, so I mostly don't bother.

BertrandRussell · 05/09/2017 10:33

And men are not marketed a fragranced spray to "freshen up" their penises...........

BeyondLimitsAndWhatever · 05/09/2017 10:35

I wonder where op got to? Perhaps she is shaving?

ponderingprobably · 05/09/2017 10:36

Bertrand Or spray so the toilet does not smell!

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 05/09/2017 10:39

I didn't realise it was feminists we needed to thank for that, I thought it was just due to budget cuts (and lack of staff available).

Not sure it was feminists rather than women but ive no idea

BertrandRussell · 05/09/2017 10:40

"I wonder where op got to? Perhaps she is shaving?

Maybe she decided to write her article about something less complicated!

Lovingmybear2 · 05/09/2017 10:40

Yes rugby players who havnt just come off the pitch.

Not having the premise that male sweat or smell is attractive! It's not and men don't think it is either.

Look anyone smelling of sweat or having bad breath isn't nice. We all share a small space so washing is polite at the very least. Hate smelling BO.

Shaving is different although beards with food in are vile.

I don't feel clean with body hair so shave. Dh does too. So what?

And regards the friend who doesn't wash and doesn't smell but runs a small holding??? Well the animals probably don't object but guessing she would not be popular in an office job.

LorLorr2 · 05/09/2017 10:40

"Women who keep their hair are much more conditioned, trying to make a point, than the ones who shave it seems." ..Wot?

coddiwomple · 05/09/2017 10:42

maintain that it's because it's sweaty and dirty to have it is simply incorrect

why can't you accept that it's true for some people?

I too, have mentioned menstruation. You are very lucky if you are able to wear mini tampax and have a light flow. Unfortunately, some of us have horrendous bleed, post babies and during periods, and it's pretty grim down there. It's much cleaner with a trimmed area (I won't even go into details of a c-section, you can imagine)
After a baby, you'd better use pads with wings if you are hairy down there too.
I haven't go access to a bidet every time I change a pad, which can be at least every hour at the worst time.

Why do you have to pretend there is any conditioning in there? Your attitude to refuse to consider another person reality is what is wrong in all this debate. Some things are fashionable, some aren't. I don't need to make excuses to have a trim bikini line, if it was just by choice, I would be the first to be proud to be tidy. As it happens, yes it looks better, but it's also a necessity at least one week of the month. It happens to be dirtier when I have my periods. Just be grateful you don't know what that's like.

Lovingmybear2 · 05/09/2017 10:43

fizzy shaving or waxing doesn't give me spots or ingrowing hair. However if it does you then sensible to be natural. Horses for courses.

Flip

1 2 ··· 6 7 8 ··· 21 22