Why can't Teacher training be done in summer holidays

[daffodil10]

Why do summer holidays need to be extended by 3 days to cover inset days when teachers have had 6 weeks off. And before I get shot down I realise they may have been in school over the holidays etc. But what is the point in going back to school on a Thursday

Gosh, the poor children having to attend school/holiday clubs for almost 365 days a year. What would be the point in having them?

Teachers are only paid for the 195 days of the year. Their salary is then spread a Ross 12 months. They don't get paid in the holidays (apart from the 28 days statutory leave).

I was a teacher and left after 12 years. I wouldn't have the energy to do anything in the holidays. You can't expect teachers to fulfil current expectations and then run activities in the holidays. We're already losing thousands of good teachers every term.

Not all nurseries open 8-6 all year round, just the private ones that parents pay for. The funding from the government is term time only, the same as schools and only from age 3 so parents still have to find and pay for wrap around care the same as school. Also, the 30 hours is being underfunded by the government and settings are closing as they can't afford to make up the shortfall so I can't for a minute imagine how year-round would work in schools. Plus even if you wanted your child in school every day of the year, what about Christmas? Or parents who work nights or weekends? Should schools be open 24/7? When would families have their holidays? Your argument makes no sense.

There are so many extra curricular activities that could be run during these time... sport, music, cookery, drama etc etc... Term time could be 'teaching' English, Maths, science etc etc

Who would teach/oversee/supervise these holiday activities and where would the money come from? If I (as a teacher) was doing PE-I need to be qualified, we weren't allowed to teach PE without a teacher there when I trained. If I was doing cooking-I'd do it in groups of no more than 6 for space and safety reasons. If I was doing drama-I'd need space. We have 1 hall and 21 classes-how would that work? I also can't think of many people who don't have jobs who are ready and waiting without children of their own to take on holiday jobs-just university students really. You will probably say I am just putting obstacles in the way of a really good plan though.

How come nursery schools can manage decent opening times? They are open 8am-6pm 51 weeks of the year!

No, nursery schools run for about 3 hours a day during term time. It is Private nurseries that run all year round from 7-7 as they have huge numbers of staff, paid for by the parents. There was a thread this week saying people now pay £50+ a day for this care-it's not cheap!

There are so many extra curricular activities that could be run during these time... sport, music, cookery, drama etc etc...

Not all of your suggestions are viable as they require some form of certification and insurance.

It reminds me of the wonderful government plan to replace free lunches with free breakfasts. Breakfasts are cheaper than lunches so it would save the school loads of money.

Except a lot of parents don't want to put their kid in breakfast club, and no one had given any thought to who would be serving these breakfasts.

No worries cathf. A reasonable post gets a reasonable reply. I save my sarcasm and exasperation for idiots who repeat the same nonsense multiple times despite millions of people correcting their mis-information and nonsensical arguments.

Appuskidu
You're missing the point. Schools are rubbish, teachers don't work hard, school holidays are a big surprise to some parents because we have never had them before, there's no childcare (except for when there is), when thete is childcare people don't want to pay for it because they don't see why they should. So the logical solution is for the education system to be reworked around the needs and hours of a small number of individuals who think that they should have free, convenient childcare given to them on a plate.

It's a little uncalled for to call somebody an idiot because their viewpoint differs from your own. Just because you are unable to construct a valid debate does not mean that you need to resort to insults. That's just rude!

It would require a lot of planning, training and funding! But think of the job creation within the public sector and the benefits to society for both the workers and the children....

It's not about a different viewpoint.
Schools are for education. Not childcare. Fact.
Teachers already do a full time job. Fact.
Schools aren't free for non school use 24/7. Meetings and clubs and cleaning etc. fact.
Outside providers are expensive. Schools can't pay for this. Fact.
It's idiotic not to understand these simple facts.

The (outstanding, over-subscribed) school along the road from mine closed its wrap-around facility due to lack of demand.
So, no. Not everyone has the same requirements as you, Shelly.

The government help to fund this childcare - To assist working parents! For 30 hours PW I now believe!

I'm assuming the very well publicised fact that many nurseries are facing closing or not offering the 30hrs because they can't afford to run them on the government funding completely passed you by. Along with the fact that it is only for 38weeks of the year (190 days) and that parents have to pay for the full hours during holidays or fewer hours spread across the full year.

• Some schools already successfully run wrap-around childcare - FACT! (Some don't offer anything! Some wrap-around childcare is affordable to working parents, other private providers are VERY expensive = It's not equal)
• Some teachers choose to work part-time, and that's okay! - FACT!
• Schools could use their existing space and resources to support outside clubs to provide wrap-around childcare. Some schools can choose to use their staff room if they need to hold a meeting after school - FACT!
• This would be a better idea for a government funded incentive then free breakfasts in schools - FACT!

find solutions. Not excuses I know where I want my taxes to go! I don't think that spending a minuscule percentage of our taxes on families, the employed and our childrens health and education is so bad!

It's a little uncalled for to call somebody an idiot because their viewpoint differs from your own. Just because you are unable to construct a valid debate does not mean that you need to resort to insults. That's just rude!
What's rude is you claiming I lack the ability to construct a valid debate when i have already given multiple solutions on this thread.

I also don't mind differences of opinion, as long as they are reasonable and grounded in evidence - notI feel hard done to in life on something and have an ill-informed view which I will repeat to the end regardless of the issues
On this thread I pointed out that there'd be issues covering the curriculum if schools qere all year but half day because of how timetabling and lessons work. I was told essentially to shut up whining about lesson length and to have a proper discussion... which I was (like other posters) by pointing out why it wouldn't work.

I stand by my view: people who repeatedly bring up the same ill-informed arguments after the facts hace been clearly stated by multiple people are idiots (in the same way people who believe that benefit fraud is a bigger issue than legal corportate tax avoidance are idiots. When the facts are there, only fools continue to argue otherwise).

Shelly in a few years you will not give a toss about wraparound holiday childcare because you won't need it. Families with a SAHP don't need it. I don't need it (teacher). Other families with a term-time working parent or family support or other childcare arrangements don't need it.

This isn't a huge problem for the country, it's your problem, right now, but in a few years you'll have forgotten all about it.

The (outstanding, over-subscribed) school along the road from mine closed its wrap-around facility due to lack of demand

Same on some of our feeder primaries.

If there was demand and enough people to make it viable then a company would run it. As it stands, there's not the demand to make it worth running other wise it would run (and people would only bitch about the cost if they set it up for only a handful of children)

The best comment so far goes to noblegiraffe - you are probably right! It's just really hard being a nurse and earning so little and juggling various, sometimes not great, childcare provisions just to get by. In August I pay more for childcare then I earn.... It makes me wonder WHY I struggle to juggle work with the children's needs. It was just so much easier when they were in nursery. It was always open. I always had somewhere safe and stimulating and fun to send them! I get really anxious when the school send a letter home about a closure day. Closure day after closure day it seems. Everyone just expects me to 'magic up' childcare! My employer doesn't care! It's not their problem either, is it?! I have sat in tears over inset days/ holiday costs and concern over WHO will look after my children while I work. I envy those with a higher wage or caring grandparents. I hope this situation does get easier! It's a struggle....

In August I pay more for childcare then I earn

That's really crap. Finding childcare for the holidays must be really difficult if you have to sort it all yourself and can't throw money at the problem - it's one of the things that keeps me in teaching.

I've just been going through the school calendar for my kids looking at all the assemblies, nativities, 'come in and have a look at your child's work' afternoons and going 'can't do that, or that, or that'. Can't even do my DD's first day at school. Basically, I think being a working parent is tough, whatever you do.

Shelly - what you seem to mean when you say you would be happy to pay more tax is that you would pay less childcare costs and more tax so would be better off (or no worse off) and everybody else who doesn't pay childcare cost would pay more tax to fund the difference?

So you would be better off but anyone not paying for childcare now would be worse off to put money in your pocket?

Or the childcare in the schools would need to be funded in the same way as now. Just in a different place?

And that's even before we go into who is magically going to provide all these classes.

But you paid for nursery. My kids go to a holiday club which is £25 a day, a lot cheaper than when they were at a childminder.

Schools aren't childcare. And when I was a teacher you couldn't have paid me £100 an hour to work in the holidays, I was too exhausted.

Sorry just read your last post - my post sounds really insensitive after that - sorry you're struggling but unfortunately the present society does not believe in raising taxes to help others - everyone is selfish and only looks at their own position.

Sorry again.

Yep, I missed all the nativities, sport's days, loads as a teacher. It sucked. And when your child's school has a training day you have to find childcare then.

Thanks for your understanding! It's hard being a working mum x

Sorry if this was discussed earlier, not read whole thread, but kids have two parents, (whether together or not is irrelevant), so why does it seem to be only mothers who have to work around childcare? Dads have equal responsibility too surely?!

I get really anxious when the school send a letter home about a closure day. Closure day after closure day it seems. Everyone just expects me to 'magic up' childcare!
They are published at least 1 year (sometimes 2years) in advance in most situations. There are usually 5 per year, most tagged on the end of holidays.

Our LA publishes the term dates for the next couple of years and then we send all ours out for the next academic year before fhe summer. Unless it's an unforeseen situation, they are not surprises.

I get that there are challenges with childcare, but the solution isn't to increase spending and revamp the entire education system so a small amount of people have childcare.

I'm all for raising taxes to fund education etc properly, but still think it is responsible to spend it for the greatest good.