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Original poster

Why can't Teacher training be done in summer holidays

879 replies

daffodil10 · 04/09/2017 21:33

Why do summer holidays need to be extended by 3 days to cover inset days when teachers have had 6 weeks off. And before I get shot down I realise they may have been in school over the holidays etc. But what is the point in going back to school on a Thursday

OP posts:
Shellygirl78 · 07/09/2017 17:30

I'm a nurse!

Kit30 · 07/09/2017 17:32

Don't see a problem with inset days. It's a great opportunity for teachers to network and brainstorm as well as doing cpd. They probably badly don't get many opportunities to do that during working hours & I think the pupils benefit too

Shellygirl78 · 07/09/2017 17:33

I just think she lacks the ability to 'think outside the box'! - I can dream can't I?! In a 'ideal world' scenario. Maybe in a few decades we will look back on this MN thread and we will have my vision of 'wonderful public services for all' and it will be great, and I will say 'I told you so'!

Shellygirl78 · 07/09/2017 17:34

Closing the school to pupils is MY issue, not the training! Training is beneficial for all.....

cathf · 07/09/2017 17:35

Not sure what you mean Sooty - that fact Shelley is a nurse is irrelevant to this thread.

Maisy, sorry, I do not mean to sound spiteful, and I thank you for your reasoned response.

I do understand pro-rata pay - I was just pointing out (and I stand by this) that the fact that teachers pay is only for 44 weeks of the year is conveniently forgotten when debates about pay come up.

I am not a teacher, but my husband has been one, my sister is one, and five of my friends are teachers, so my knowledge does extend to more than just attending school many years ago.

thatdearoctopus · 07/09/2017 17:38

Inset days just add insult to injury (in terms of childcare/costs) to the average working parents.

Currently, children attend school for 190 days a year. If the 5 INSET days were scrapped, children would attend school .... 190 days a year. So abolishing them would make precisely zero difference to your childcare costs, Shelley.
(I know this point has been made several times on this thread, but I've made it again for the hard-of-understanding).

grannytomine · 07/09/2017 17:40

I will add that I don't think teachers work 9-3, but even if they stay for two hours every night, I can't speak for all teachers but I know my DD is in school 8 - 5 and then does work at home. She also does work in holidays, GCSE results day, A level results day, sorting out classroom for new term etc.

treaclesoda · 07/09/2017 17:40

how come taking a school age child prevents them having a preschooler?

Because if they're allowed a maximum of four children and they take four school age children then they can't take any pre-schoolers.

You might strike it lucky and find someone who has already taken their maximum number of under 5s and still has room for a school age child as well (if they're allowed two preschoolers and one older child for example). But since a lot of people are childminders at the same time as having school age children themselves, it's quite rare.

Janeismymiddlename · 07/09/2017 17:41

I will add that I don't think teachers work 9-3, but even if they stay for two hours every night, that is still just a 'normal' working day

All teachers who have posted their hours (which you have ignored) have told you that as a general rule their hours are 8 till 5 and then a couple of hours at home a night and at least half a day at the weekend. We don't consistently get lunch breaks, morning breaks or for those of us who smoke, fag breaks. I struggle to find time to use the bathroom most days.

grannytomine · 07/09/2017 17:41

Shelley who would pay for all this child care? If parents pay it is likely to cost as much as they pay now or do you think the taxpayer should pay? I wonder which budget would get cut to cover that cost?

Maireadplastic · 07/09/2017 17:44

So we've had our first teacher-slagging thread of the new academic year. I'm taking bids on the arrival of our first PTA-slagging thread....

Appuskidu · 07/09/2017 17:47

I will add that I don't think teachers work 9-3, but even if they stay for two hours every night, that is still just a 'normal' working day.

At my school the children walk though the door at 8.30 and leave at 3.30. Even if I cut it fine and got in at 8 to give me a chance to turn the whiteboard and lights on and take the chairs off the tables, and then was working until 4 when the very last child is collected, that's already 2 hours over your 9-3 estimation. That's before I have touched any paperwork!

strawberrygate · 07/09/2017 17:55

treacle most CM's can have 3 preschoolers then another 3 school age. I think they're taking the piss charging a full day TBH.

cathf · 07/09/2017 17:57

appuskidu, but my point is, so do many other professions. My ex-husband regularly worked 6am - 6pm in work, then did extra at the weekend.
Mt 9am - 3pm hours were just an approximation, by the way. If you officially work 8.30 -3.30, I assume you are paid for these hours?
Financial services and law are both notorious for expecting lots of free hours from their staff.
Teachers do not have a monopoly on working extra hours, I'm afraid.

treaclesoda · 07/09/2017 17:59

strawberry I don't know any childminders who would be allowed 6 children at once.

But even so, if they took six school age children instead of the three preschoolers, then surely they would expect to be compensated for the hours of income that they are missing out on by not having the pre-schoolers?

teach2922 · 07/09/2017 18:07

Worked from 7am-4pm and again 6pm-11pm M/T/W. I have been in one hour. I've made tea, cleaned our home and just browsing the net before I start again. I'm happy to do this as I adore my profession and wouldn't change my job for the world. I don't moan or complain about my hours as I knew I would be a 'life-style' more than a job when I started my teaching. I am happy to think I make the lives of my students better. I teach in EYFS and it's non-stop from 8:50-3:30pm (the hours my children need are in) and I adore it. The holidays are a bonus for me.

BoneyBackJefferson · 07/09/2017 18:07

Teachers do not have a monopoly on working extra hours, I'm afraid.

might as fucking well be.;

Mistressiggi · 07/09/2017 18:08

Can't read 28 pages.
It's not (just) the long hours that makes teaching particularly stressful, it's what you're doing during those long hours. You are performing all the time to a often disaffected and regularly downright hostile audience. You pee on schedule. Marking, planning, training is seen as "downtime" as it's so much more relaxing than being at the chalk face.

strawberrygate · 07/09/2017 18:12

treacle all the CM's i know have 3 pre schoolers and at least 3 after schoolies. Nobody would take on 6 under 8 year olds just for after school for the reasons you say, but once a child is over 8 they don't count in your ratios anyway.
most people take on mindees as babies / toddlers then just keep them fpor the wraparound care once they start school but at eg. £15 per day not £35

noblegiraffe · 07/09/2017 18:22

Shelley' childcare issues only affects parents with primary school aged, or possibly young secondary school aged children who don't have a SAHP, or a term-time only working parent or grandparents willing to provide childcare, or alternative childcare arrangements e.g. a childminder.

Rearranging the tax system and the education system just because a tiny minority of the population find childcare a bit tricky is a pretty big ask.

treaclesoda · 07/09/2017 18:37

strawberry where I am all children up to the age of 12 have to be counted in the ratio. As do the childminder's own children. So if you get a childminder with three children of her own, then she only has three spaces left, so unless her own children are all preschoolers, she is either going to only accept pre-schoolers or take older children but need to be paid for it (since you are then preventing her taking the pre-schoolers).

strawberrygate · 07/09/2017 18:42

treacle I take it you're not in England then?

KittyVonCatsington · 07/09/2017 18:43

Can't believe what I am still reading on this thread, it really is just the gift that keeps on giving...

I am in work for 7am (my secondary school starts at 8:05am) and left today at 5pm (yay-no marking yet!) and am mumsnetting while DH does bathtime. I'll soon do bedtime and then dinner and then get down to writing a schedule for the NQT I am mentoring and put together some specific resources for a Year 13 I have just been told is joining my subject, as they got a U grade in two subjects and doesn't want to continue with either, so I am going to have to do a two year Linear A Level with them in one year, alongside my current Year 13 class.

Oh and someone said upthread mentioned that all professions have unpaid overtime. Ha ha! They really don't. I had a friend round who is an HR Co-ordinator and was on day off, when she had an email come through, asking if she could forward a job Ad link that she had forgotten to do. Cue bitching all evening during our meal about how outrageous it was and contacting many colleagues to complain. DH and I (both teachers) were just so bemused by that reaction it would have taken less than 30 secs to forward an email and then get back to enjoying company as we were so used to having unpaid overtime such a large part of our job....

treaclesoda · 07/09/2017 18:46

strawberry no, I'm in N Ireland. Smile

KittyVonCatsington · 07/09/2017 18:48

Financial services and law are both notorious for expecting lots of free hours from their staff.

And both pay a huge amount more than teaching and don't have people telling them how to do their job...

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