Why can't Teacher training be done in summer holidays

[daffodil10]

Why do summer holidays need to be extended by 3 days to cover inset days when teachers have had 6 weeks off. And before I get shot down I realise they may have been in school over the holidays etc. But what is the point in going back to school on a Thursday

I'm a person with great ideas! You are the troll.

But wouldn't it be great if they did!

Not everyone has family to support them on school closure days.

Tell me about it. So we plan.

Some people have more then one child to organise care and payment for.

Yep.

Some people don't have suitable childcare provision in their locality. Some people are forced to used very expensive childcare or childminders who can basically charge what they like.

So what do you think is a reasonable price that reflects the costs? How much profit do you think they're making?

I'm always quite happy to pay appropriately for quality childcare. These are the most precious things in my world, I'd prefer those caring for them weren't doing it on a shoestring.

I am just pointing out that schools could develop a national policy of good quality wrap around childcare for ALL! It would be a good investment!

Investment for whom? At any rate this or something similar was a proposed policy in the 2015 election, from memory. Apparently not sufficiently popular to swing it....

I honestly don't see what's "pioused and privileged" about explaining why and how schools are not free childcare providers. That's a fact.

And if you can't afford or arrange childcare that's not the problem of teachers. That's your problem. Don't have kids if you can't make suitable arrangements for them. It's a really, really easy concept.

@JassyRadlett a really sensible approach to parenting and childcare!

I'm a person with great ideas

I'd be rolling around laughing - if this were remotely funny.

Shelly do you ever see your child/ren's teacher/s outside the alleged working hours of 9am-3pm?

Do you ever ask a question or raise a concern, and then receive a response outside of those hours?

If the answer to either of these is yes, then the teacher is working outside of what you believe are the working hours. So s/he is not being paid to - and is not obliged to - respond to you as a parent (or the other 30+ parents).

And parental liaison is just one of the many extra demands on teachers outside of the actual working times you believe are the case. Have a little think about it.

Many people, work just as hard, if not harder then teachers! That's not what was under discussion so why twist my words to make it about that?! The points I made related to childcare provision

Who's twisting your words? Not sure who you're addressing in your last comment.

I'd also be happy to pay more in taxes so that ALL school children received a healthy cooked school meal! (Have you seen what junk some parents feed their children!). I'm not talking here about your privileged children. I am saying that every child matters and healthy school meals and good quality wraparound childcare for all would make such a difference to the next generation! I emphasise ... FOR ALL! What's wrong with that view?! I'd happily pay more in my taxes for that...

@Shellygirl78 You're the one who is bringing up how hard people work. No teacher on this thread has made that comment! And you can't compare profession with profession or job with job anyway. It's horses for courses.

I live in an area with very limited childcare options. There are no after school or breakfast clubs, no holiday clubs, in fact there's not even a nursery locally for younger children. Childminders charge for a full day of childcare even when a child is at school (because taking a school age child prevents them taking a pre-schooler, and they need to make ends meet) so childcare costs do not decrease when your child starts school. And there is no 15 or 30 hours of free childcare provision, you are on your own (unless you get tax credits or something). And primary school children only have a five hour day until the age of 8, which means multiple school pickups for many families (plus a two month long settling in phase at the start of P1). I think I have a good understanding of childcare issues. Yet I've never in all my years heard anyone complain about elections/teacher training days/school holidays because everyone accepts that that's just the way it is. Mumsnet has been a real eye opener for me.

I doubt if you have the faintest idea what wrap around childcare in all schools would cost.
If you choose to have a family, you make appropriate arrangements for them., Jassy's points re needing to have as much notice as possible to facilitate those arrangements is perfectly reasonable, but @Shellygirl78 you just don't seem to have any thinking or comprehension skills.

(because taking a school age child prevents them taking a pre-schooler, and they need to make ends meet

how come taking a school age child prevents them having a [preschooler?

teachers feel it is their 'entitlement' to work 9-3pm AND have THREE months of 'holiday'

And once more, since it doesn't seem to be sinking in, teachers are not paid for these 'holidays'. They are paid for the hours they're contracted to work, plus statutory holiday pay - that is the same amount of paid holiday that everyone else gets.

I've known of teachers who took extra jobs during the summer holidays, (for which they're not paid, remember), to boost their earnings a bit.

ShellyGirl Go away and read the whole fucking thread, then read it again, and see if you can comprehend the basic points that have been made numerous times on here.

And then admit you're talking absolute bollocks.

shelly. You seriously need to get a grip and understand how the world works. Who is going to pay for all this extra care? You might be happy to pay extra tax, many aren't. Do you vote?

You,are desperately out of touch with teachers. We too are parents. We too fall back on expensive childcare when there is no family. We can't book a day off to deal with an INSET day at our children's schools because we are in school ourselves. I am a single parent with caring responsibilities for a parent with dementia. I have no family help. No help from the ex. I have three children in 2 different schools. I also teach and as such, have to manage differing holiday dates and INSET days without being able to take a days annual leave. And you know what? I manage it. I plan and I pay through the nose 'cos I'm a parent and looking after my own children is my responsibility. I devolve the responsibility of educating my children to the State. But the rest is up to me.

Given school holidays haven't changed since I was small, I'm always amazed that any parents are surprised that they have to arrange childcare for them.

Shelley, you will get nowhere on this thread - teachers, like nurses, are untouchable on MN, I'm afraid.
I will add that I don't think teachers work 9-3, but even if they stay for two hours every night, that is still just a 'normal' working day.
The holiday pay argument flummoxes me too - teachers are always quick to point out that most of their holiday is unpaid, but this seems to be conveniently forgotten when the issue of pay comes up.
If the salary is only meant to cover 39 weeks + 5 weeks holiday pay, that's only 44 weeks a year, six weeks less than any other profession (I think?).
So, a salary of £22k is not really £22k, but £25k pro-rata full time - have I got that right?
And I'm not counting 'unpaid' work teachers do, as that is a hazard of just about every profession.

teachers, like nurses, are untouchable on MN, I'm afraid

Well that's rubbish, teachers and schools are always being slagged off on MN

And drs receptionists...

Another one spectacularly missing the point.

Unsurprising.

In that case, it sounds like a decent provision of wrap-around school care and holiday care would benefit you too then?! Wouldn't it benefit everyone? We have always taken responsibility for our children too but provisions in different schools and different parts of the UK vary so much in terms of price and standards. I'd nationalise everything of any value in terms of our public services, but that's just me! We are all entitled to our opinions. I don't necessarily agree with some of the above but it's your right to feel they way you do....

Oh and cathf you've rather shot yourself in the foot there. I believe @Shellygirl78 is a nurse...

cathf
We aren't untouchable on MN. There's a hell of a lot of spite around towards us.

As a teacher I don't mind people raising issues (online or at school) but I do mind people spouting ill-informed shite and going on about how they know my job more than me/feel they can correct me on doing my job because they went to school once.

Our salary is pay for term time (because that's what we are comtracted to work) plus basic holiday entitlement. If we didn't just work term time only our annual pay wpuld be more.

E.g. some of our IT staff and technicians are term time only, others are year round employed. They can be on thr same pay point but one is paid more.

On unpaid work, i think some in teaching is a to be expected as part og being a salaried professional but in some schools it goes too far. I would only ever bring up the extra work if people were doing the 'you don't work proper hours/whining about holiday'

My view is different jobs have different terms and conditions, each with pros and cons (though i do miss flexi time and working from home!). People shoulf accept that before wading in on stuff they know little about.

Are you talking about me Sooty? What point am I missing please?