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Original poster

How to explain "God" to 5 year old?!

187 replies

godconfusion · 03/09/2017 14:40

DS has a very religious grandmother who has somewhat confused him at the moment telling him about God/Jesus.

Conversation this morning began with "I can see God at the window mummy"

Lots of chatter lately about how God is a superhero (certain his GM has told him this in attempts to explain the concept of God Angry) I had been ignoring and waiting for it to die off and don't want to start an almighty row over it with her.

So I replied saying "well you know lots of people believe different things and I don't believe in God like GM but some people do, others believe in different Gods they might call things like Krishna or Allah"

He responded saying "well I believe like GM because she isn't lying is she?"

I tried to say "no she's not lying because she believes it, but she doesn't know for sure"

He replied "because God is invisible, that's why. Is Allah invisible too?"

I said "people believe in God or Gods and that's fine and some people don't, mummy doesn't anymore but nanny does and I think daddy might but you can choose"

He came back with "well I believe in lizards that change colour"

I said that they're not quite the same because chameleons are things we can see with our eyes so we know they're definitely real and true whereas God isn't something we can actually see and know so we have to just believe or not believe

His response: "yes because Jesus is invisible and he made the whole world mummy and a lizard didn't so we can see them"

So basically I'm confusing my kid further... and need a really clear and appropriate way of explaining the concept of God without saying it's all bollocks (as I don't want to say that either)

OP posts:
TittyGolightly · 04/09/2017 14:43

The majority of the world believe in god.

Can you back that up?

heartstornastray · 04/09/2017 14:55

Bertrand Can you explain then how the earth managed to be in such perfect alignment to the moon and the sun to support life. The odds of getting that happening by chance are high enough to be impossible. We know the universe had a beginning, something started the chain of events.

The argument is simple yet elegant as described by William Lane Craig.
"Whatever begins to exist has a cause....second, the universe had a beginning.....therefore, the universe has a cause." You can't explain it away.

Ontopofthesunset · 04/09/2017 14:57

Yes, but even if the majority of the world still currently believes in God, gods or god (delete as applicable, and the beauty of religious faith is that you can delete as you see fit), this will change increasingly rapidly. As my 16 year old says, once you've seen the fiction of religion for what it is, you can't unknow it - everything you see or read or find out after that point just reinforces it.

As the world's population becomes increasingly educated and affluent (assuming this does happen), the balance will shift. There's a strong correlation between educated affluence and atheism. This is quite a nice illustration. www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/maps-and-graphics/most-religious-countries-in-the-world/

Ontopofthesunset · 04/09/2017 15:00

So what was the cause of God then? What perfect set of incomparably unlikely events took place to create a deity? As with fleas, so with all infinite regressions. Big gods have little gods upon their backs to bite 'em, and little gods have lesser gods, and so on ad infinitum.

BertrandRussell · 04/09/2017 15:05

"Bertrand Can you explain then how the earth managed to be in such perfect alignment to the moon and the sun to support life."

No. Because it isn't. Life evolved to suit the conditions prevailing. It's
called natural selection.

catkind · 04/09/2017 15:07

Earths position in the universe was impossible to have come about by chance, it's been made with exact precision, perfect for our existence.
To elaborate on Bertrand's response, this is a classic fallacy. You need to look up the "anthropic principle".
Essentially it says that inevitably we will observe apparently very improbable conditions for life - because if conditions weren't perfect for our existence here, we wouldn't be here to observe. Any observers would have to be observing from somewhere else where the improbable had happened.

BertrandRussell · 04/09/2017 15:08

I see no reason to respect religion. Reasonable politeness of course but not respect.

catkind · 04/09/2017 15:09

"Whatever begins to exist has a cause....second, the universe had a beginning.....therefore, the universe has a cause." You can't explain it away.
That you can't explain away with a deity either. What's the cause of the deity? It just shoves the problem up the line.

heartstornastray · 04/09/2017 15:11

What do you mean, "no it isn't",? of course it is, and the chain of events were put in place millions of years ago to produce life as we know it. We cannot have evolved from nothing, it is an impossibllity.

heartstornastray · 04/09/2017 15:15

catkind that is the view of one man.

TittyGolightly · 04/09/2017 15:18

If there is a creator, what are wasps for?

Natsku · 04/09/2017 15:33

If there is a creator, what are wasps for?

And mosquitoes Angry

CardinalSin · 04/09/2017 15:35

Hearts is rather falling for Douglas Adams' Puddle Fallacy;

“This is rather as if you imagine a puddle waking up one morning and thinking, 'This is an interesting world I find myself in — an interesting hole I find myself in — fits me rather neatly, doesn't it? In fact it fits me staggeringly well, must have been made to have me in it!' This is such a powerful idea that as the sun rises in the sky and the air heats up and as, gradually, the puddle gets smaller and smaller, frantically hanging on to the notion that everything's going to be alright, because this world was meant to have him in it, was built to have him in it; so the moment he disappears catches him rather by surprise. I think this may be something we need to be on the watch out for.”

BertrandRussell · 04/09/2017 15:45

"We cannot have evolved from nothing, it is an impossibllity."

We didn't. We evolved from primordial soup.

Fresh8008 · 04/09/2017 15:46

What proven facts are you actually talking about and what firm evidence of evolution

You could go into a lab and see evolution occurring or go to Daphne Major and see a new species of bird that has evolved in our lifetime... if you actually cared about the truth.

All theories of evolution rot away when properly scrutinised
Have you been awarded your Nobel prize because that would be a world changing discovery... There isn't multiple theories, there is only 'evolution'.

It still cannot explain how non living chemicals ever self assembled into the first living cell Evolution has nothing to do with this (abiogenesis)

Earths position in the universe was impossible to have come about by chance, it's been made with exact precision, perfect for our existence.

That's what all puddles ever keep saying about potholes, isn't design amazing.

It takes a far stronger leap of faith to believe we are here by chance than the strong evidence pointing to a creator. I prefer never to take any leaps of faith, please share this evidence.

Original poster
godconfusion · 04/09/2017 15:52

Apologies... I went off to watch inception last night and the thread has rather moved on.

I don't wish to squish all belief in my child altogether and I also feel that the bible is seperate actually to a belief in God. For many it frames belief but I don't think people have to believe the bible to have a belief in some form of supernatural power.

I also don't wish to hugely disrespect the bible or any other scriptures and encourage my child to... it just won't help family relationships or my child making sense of who he has in his life and who he can trust

However we're a little confused clearly when god is a colour changing lizard and grandma must be lying if she says "Jesus saves people" and mummy says "actually I'm taking you to the doctors before we call on Jesus" that type of stuff

He has no concept of what a God is. Or of an adult having different views... it's very black and white to him. Things are correct or they are wrong.

He's only 5 but he'd make the rudest most intolerant atheist or the most aggressive evangelist... that's his nature. I'd like to help him understand somewhere in the middle without it being "you lied, you're stupid or you're a sinner" in terms of what he ultimately figures out

OP posts:
catkind · 04/09/2017 15:52

catkind that is the view of one man.
Sorry, lost you, which view and which man? I posted a couple of simple logical trains of thought, which I'd hardly class as views at all. Maybe viewpoints. Pretty common ones as far as I know.

catkind · 04/09/2017 15:56

OP, I find the colour changing lizard type ideas you get from children are often rather insightful. A good starting point for discussion at least. Why does he believe in colour changing lizards? Does he believe in them more or less than he believes in say horses? Why? What about invisible pink unicorns?

Also like so many discussions with small children, they'll ask a question, you'll answer, they'll go off on a tangent about lizards - but then they'll come back the next week with another question. They're building a picture, slowly, over time.

Fresh8008 · 04/09/2017 16:15

The majority of the world believe in god. Encouraging your child to view millions of people with contempt is really disgraceful

If this were true why does most of the world act in ways that will condemn them to eternal hell. Seems to be contradictory. I experience most people are really just culturally religious rather than actually believing in deities.
Over history most of the world believed in a flat earth, slavery, homophobia, gods etc that does not mean you shouldn't encourage children to raise their consciousness above them.

"Whatever begins to exist has a cause....second, the universe had a beginning.....therefore, the universe has a cause."
Their is so much wrong with that statement. Even theists believe their god didnt have a cause

Not all sub atomic particles have a cause. It has not been proven yet that the universe/cosmos had a beginning and therefore even need a cause. Smile Time seems to have have been created during the big bang so the concept of cause coming before effect breaks down and allowing all sorts of possibilities.

Fresh8008 · 04/09/2017 16:47

I thought I might tell my DC that there is a cookie jar hidden in my house:

No one knows who hid it or why, many have searched but none have found it.

Some believe it has a cookie in it that will feed the whole street or cure the flu. Some believe it is actually a doorway to a fun park where we can play games forever if your a good boy. Some think a lizard once found the cookie jar and it made him change colour. Some, that the jar is empty or shocked silence that there never even was a cookie jar. Granny by the way believes the cookie jar has a genie in it that grants wishes.

When I was young I looked for it, if you want to you can look for it. But when you get the flu we will be ringing the doctor not looking for the cookie jar. When you want to play we will drive to a park, not looking for the cookie jar. And when you are hungry we will bake cookies not look for the cookie jar.

Other people go to a shop and buy cookie jars but they are not the same as the hidden cookie jar.

When they get older I will admit to them I just made up the story... for educational purposes.

sashh · 04/09/2017 18:40

I cant believe that evolution would give us what we have.

Then you don't understand evolution.

What proven facts are you actually talking about and what firm evidence of evolution. There's actually hardly any. All theories of evolution rot away when properly scrutinised.

There is only one theory of evolution and it stands up to all tests

It still cannot explain how non living chemicals ever self assembled into the first living cell.

Yes it does

Earths position in the universe was impossible to have come about by chance, it's been made with exact precision, perfect for our existence.

The Earth was hit by a planet sized meteor/asteroid (can't remember - big lump of rock) that became the moon. Without the moon Earth would not be as stable as it is in terms or orbiting, poles, equator.

The Earth is far from being perfect. It is certainly not perfect for your existence.

All the viruses, bacteria, parasites that do us only harm - what is the point of them in a perfect world?

itusedtobeverydifferent · 04/09/2017 18:43

I just say, 'we don't know for sure if Jesus existed and if god is real, as we ourselves haven't seen for ourselves with our own eyes. However many people like to believe he is real. When you feel ready, you can choose.'

Fekko · 04/09/2017 18:46

Just don't do what my charming ail did when in one her (frequent) drunken rants. Tell the small child that religion is a load of crap and when 'yur deed yur deed' and that it's all just blackness. Poor kid had nightmares for ages.

Fresh8008 · 04/09/2017 18:50

When you feel ready, you can choose
That's the thing about beliefs, you cant choose them. Either you believe or you don't, no choice involved.

itusedtobeverydifferent · 04/09/2017 19:07

Fresh That may be so, but to a small child it's a simple way to explain. More descriptive responses can be given as they grow.

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