How to explain "God" to 5 year old?!

[godconfusion]

DS has a very religious grandmother who has somewhat confused him at the moment telling him about God/Jesus.

Conversation this morning began with "I can see God at the window mummy"

Lots of chatter lately about how God is a superhero (certain his GM has told him this in attempts to explain the concept of God ) I had been ignoring and waiting for it to die off and don't want to start an almighty row over it with her.

So I replied saying "well you know lots of people believe different things and I don't believe in God like GM but some people do, others believe in different Gods they might call things like Krishna or Allah"

He responded saying "well I believe like GM because she isn't lying is she?"

I tried to say "no she's not lying because she believes it, but she doesn't know for sure"

He replied "because God is invisible, that's why. Is Allah invisible too?"

I said "people believe in God or Gods and that's fine and some people don't, mummy doesn't anymore but nanny does and I think daddy might but you can choose"

He came back with "well I believe in lizards that change colour"

I said that they're not quite the same because chameleons are things we can see with our eyes so we know they're definitely real and true whereas God isn't something we can actually see and know so we have to just believe or not believe

His response: "yes because Jesus is invisible and he made the whole world mummy and a lizard didn't so we can see them"

So basically I'm confusing my kid further... and need a really clear and appropriate way of explaining the concept of God without saying it's all bollocks (as I don't want to say that either)

My children's school they used to respond en masse to the head who would start. Except one day when one child responded. Confusion reigned.

Headteacher....."Who made the world?"
Kids....."God made the world"
One year 3 child....."Who made God?"

Tumbleweed moment...

I think it's about first of all, finding an age-appropriate way of explaining the difference between fact and belief. Don't over complicate it. Use examples such as fairy stories/things he knows to be made up versus real facts.

Get your child science books that talk about topics such as evolution, space, solar system, geology etc (obviously aimed at his age)... the things that "creationists" explain with their "God stories" - to give him another explanation. Teach him to ask questions, apply reason etc... in a simple but effective way (eg Noah's Ark is not physically possible - explain why in simple terms) - teach him to think about whether what he is being told really makes sense given the evidence. Teach him about the concept of "evidence" in a simple way.

If he has those tools/skills then chances are, as he applies reason and evidence, he'll come to the conclusion himself that it's all nonsense. It's about giving him alternative information, explanations, tools and skills he can apply, rather than just accepting what he's told as fact. That way he comes to his own conclusions (which will likely evolve over time as he gets older) in his own time.

I am going down the 'some people believe, other people believe' route with my DS, who is a bit younger. When he asked why, I tried to explain in 'some people like to do sport, some people prefer to read books, everyone has their own ideas about things' vein.

We do attend church, where the sermons are predominantly decent human values with a splash of God thrown in, rather than indoctrination, plus some nice music.

We haven't really read any Bible stories, but have covered the Greek myths pretty well, and some other creation type stories. (I'd love to have some recommendations of books people recommend to cover stories from other religions, if that isn't too flippant).

In your shoes I'd focus on the less controversial bits of what GM is saying, so 'GM believes we should love our neighbour, and that is why she focuses on X or Y', and leave time to sort the rest out.

Believer or not, cultivating a respect and awareness of all religions and none seems to make the most sense to me. I think describing a faith as a fairy story is quite derogatory. It is perfectly possible to present the idea of different beliefs without pouring scorn on others. I met someone recently who told me he had made a conscious choice between embracing Christianity and falling (in his case to alcoholism and addiction). An extreme case maybe, but there is value in religion for many millions of people, be that in actually believing that Jesus rose from the dead to save mankind, or in finding comfort in a sense of community

solasum but it being useful doesn't make it true.

Fables are valuable because they can give simplified examples of how to explain. They are not, however, "true".

People who believe in unicorns may find them comforting, because they are symbols of goodness, and they may find community in others who believe in them. Again, doesn't make it true.

It is important to respect other people, and it can be useful to recognise the good it can do. But it can also do harm; I have several friends with mental health problems that are/were exacerbated by their religion.

Separating truth, from belief and respect of people vs respect of ideas are, to me, two key things.

From my perspective God is a story previous generations used to explain things about the universe that no one understood. Fast forward. We now mainly understand those things so no longer need the stories but they have been ingrained in some cultures for so long that they still believe in them.

This is exactly what I told my son and he seemed to understand. Then he had a few lessons on religion while in reception at a non-faith school. He came home saying he believed in Jesus. It turned out they had given a fair balanced view of all religions but failed to mention atheism as an option, so he thought he had to pick one

OP

I've read your thread and I think the way you would like your DC to understand god and interpretation of the bible is just too complicated for a 5 year old. I think, at this stage maybe all you need to do is plant a seed of doubt about god being real (ie belief opposite to Grandma's) and over time he will come to you and ask questions because he is curious, at which point you can discuss different beliefs.

He is only 5, you have years ahead in which to teach open mindedness and critical thinking skills.

Santa is parents pretending to be a magical person who makes presents appear.
It s perfectly explained to an older child. Yes. we set the presents when you slept and pretended it was Santa. It s like actors in the films. We make it up. Because it s a nice surprise for small children.

It really isn't the same "lie".
Acting is pretend as well. But we can all enjoy a play or movie.

But you have to repeat that some people believe in God heaven etc . And we respect that even when we don't believe ourselves. Grandma believes in God. But I don't.

When there are wars between people who believe slightly different things about Santa, then the two things might be comparable.

My children went to a C of E school and so there was a religious element to their education. Neither I nor my husband are religious and when questions were asked we just went with "some people believe this, and some that" (religion v a basic explanation of evolution). They are older now and neither is religious. The eldest in particular had an enquiring mind and once asked where dinosaurs fitted into the creation story (he couldn't understand why people and dinosaurs weren't on earth together if the story of creation was true). Science won over in the end!

You have to take one stance and stick with it

What an odd rigid way to look at the world! Do you never question anything?

Science wouldn't exist if we weren't always questioning how the world works!

I think encouraging open mindness is the best route to take-
as suggested by pps some people believe x, some y, etc.

If you get stumped by a question (who made god?! That's a cracker!) then say

"I don't know- what do you think? "

Fresh8008

"Aspergallus, you say you "really enjoy the Christian stories". I assume you mean 'some' of their stories, as some of them are pretty barbaric."

No, I didn't say that. You have misquoted me. I said that I add this comment (when speaking to a 6 year old). Because 6 year olds learning Christianity are learning about the nativity, Easter stories etc. It's an age appropriate comment.

HattiesBackpack, the only ridged way of looking at the world is through religion, thank goodness for science and it's true open-mindedness.

As for 'taking a stance', that was in relation to the op not being clear on explaining to her 5 year old. That is very clearly a case of either explaining religion as something that is incorrect factually, though granny believes it, or explain it in religious terms. Otherwise a child is only going to be confused as to whether a god is 'real' or not.

I don't know- what do you think?

A vague and rather rubbish way to explain a man-made story to a child. Saying 'I don't know, I'll just fill in my knowledge gaps with made up information instead of testing and proving/disproving theory' is exactly how we ended up with nonsense of gods and such in the first place.

I think you've done a good job. You might be surprised how much he has taken in from what you've said.

I'm atheist in an actively religious family on both sides. My 4 yr old is loving the concept of God and getting food in church at 7 (I think he's imagining sandwiches, lol). He made me a mummy and God letter last week that I didn't know how to respond to and talks about his great granny being in heaven. It's not time yet to have a frank discussion with him about varying beliefs. But when he asks the right questions he'll get a new honest answer from me.

Please keep in mind too that kids can be too young to be respectful with the information they have from their non-believing parents. So that's why I haven't told him no, I don't believe in that stuff you're talking about. His grannies would be quite distressed to be told 'my mummy says there is no God and it's just s nice story to make people feel better'. So I do need to first teach sensitivity which I know he's not ready for.

Allah isn't a different god; it is a different name for God, the same God as for Christians and Jews.

That is a matter of opinion. Most Jews, Christians and Muslims believe that but not all. Just as in some denominations of Christianity Roman Catholics are Christian and in others they are not.

For some people speaking in tongues is part of everyday worship and for others it is something that only happened in the Bible.

As for Christening v Baptism...

OP

How about the, "well GM believes in her god but did you know there are lots, some people believe in different ones" and have some nice books about Greek, Roman, Viking, Hindu gods.

I'm filtering this as our family set up is similar. My son is only 4, my mum is quite religious (not in a pushy way) and we're not. Just starting to get questions about why grandma goes to mass.

I'm with you op in that it's hard to explain you don't believe without upsetting the religious person. I love my mum and wouldn't want her to feel I was mocking or disparaging her beliefs. She wouldn't push them on the children but will obviously answer questions differently.

I don't know the right answer, currently using brief answers, distraction and saying some people believe different things. Also asking him what do you think can help. Interested to see other people's suggestions.

It's not time yet to have a frank discussion with him about varying beliefs.
Why ever not?

What I found most helpful was starting, gradually, to give them labels for different kinds of beliefs.

So - yes, granny believes that God made the world. That's because she's a Christian, that's a sort of religion. Do you know any other religions DC? Then when it comes to nativity play time, you can explain that that's a Christian story. When you visit a church, you can explain that that's where Christians go to talk to their God. Ideally schools too should be taking a "Christians believe ..." sort of perspective, but I know it doesn't always happen.

Talk about old religions that believed in more than one god too - or ones like Buddhism with none.

We found that more useful than a big mish mash of "some people believe" - then DC know which box a particular belief sits in, and start to build up a complex enough picture to be able to choose their own belief system.

DS who is 8 doesn't believe in any religion, DD who is 5 currently thinks there probably is a god. But also understands that different people believe different things - some people believe fairies are real, some people don't, and critically that it's not always kind to tell them fairies aren't real if they think there are.

Neither of them really believe in santa I don't think, but they play along for the presents, and they have been warned it would be very mean to disillusion any classmates. Thinking children and no chimney, that one was never going to last long. Like with gods really, we tend to take a "... well what do you think?" point of view.

Edmundcleverclogs

Saying 'I don't know, I'll just fill in my knowledge gaps with made up information instead of testing and proving/disproving theory'

That's an interesting way to interpret "what do you think?" What got you to that interpretation?

I think anyone who equates religious belief with belief in Santa are onto a loser. The average child can see through that level of ignorant stupidity.

From my perspective God is a story previous generations used to explain things about the universe that no one understood. Fast forward. We now mainly understand those things so no longer need the stories but they have been ingrained in some cultures for so long that they still believe in them.

This is pretty much the line I've gone with. And it feeds nicely into explaining other traditions and superstitions too. Also fits well with explaining why some people truly believe, some believe bits, and some don't believe any of it.

Ultimately OP your DS will eventually be most influenced by what you and DH believe so just make that part clear in any explanation - doesn't mean disparaging those who do believe just be clear you do not and that will be enough.

What got you to that interpretation?

How about hundreds of years of humanity doing just that? If much of humanity in history actually pushed themselves to find conclusive answers instead of just filling the gaps with fantasist rubbish, religion would never have existed.

Asking the question 'what do you think' is only half the lesson, it should always be followed by 'well if that's what you think, the next step is to find the evidence/prove it'. That is the ultimate test of critical thinking, can you not only have a variation of opinions, can you go out and prove your thoughts right or wrong?

I want my kids to make their own mind up so we discuss religions and what different people believe as well as what I believe. I tell them they will learn more as they grow up and can decide what they believe but at the moment they are too young. Ds is now ten and has followed in my non-believing footsteps. Dd is 7 and believes in a god, mainly because it gives her comfort tbh. With both kids we challenge them on their beliefs and encourage them to question themselves.

I grew up with no religion but went through a phase of going to church with my friend (aged about 8). Dh was brought up with parents who believe religion to be bollocks and decided to get confirmed at 13! As an adult he is not a believer though.

Don't stress too much about it, he's so small and has yeeears and years to develop his understanding about all things God & religion. It might be that he doesn't quite get it for a while but he will in the end.
I would suggest using books to teach him about it but I imagine most books about God for kids are Christian ones where the conclusion is that yep he's real.

You can get an usborne book on world religions and also books on Norse and Greek gods etc. I used that as an entry point to show the kids how people fill in the blanks etc. Also about how religious But the main thing I want to ensure is religious tolerance.