How to explain "God" to 5 year old?!

[godconfusion]

DS has a very religious grandmother who has somewhat confused him at the moment telling him about God/Jesus.

Conversation this morning began with "I can see God at the window mummy"

Lots of chatter lately about how God is a superhero (certain his GM has told him this in attempts to explain the concept of God ) I had been ignoring and waiting for it to die off and don't want to start an almighty row over it with her.

So I replied saying "well you know lots of people believe different things and I don't believe in God like GM but some people do, others believe in different Gods they might call things like Krishna or Allah"

He responded saying "well I believe like GM because she isn't lying is she?"

I tried to say "no she's not lying because she believes it, but she doesn't know for sure"

He replied "because God is invisible, that's why. Is Allah invisible too?"

I said "people believe in God or Gods and that's fine and some people don't, mummy doesn't anymore but nanny does and I think daddy might but you can choose"

He came back with "well I believe in lizards that change colour"

I said that they're not quite the same because chameleons are things we can see with our eyes so we know they're definitely real and true whereas God isn't something we can actually see and know so we have to just believe or not believe

His response: "yes because Jesus is invisible and he made the whole world mummy and a lizard didn't so we can see them"

So basically I'm confusing my kid further... and need a really clear and appropriate way of explaining the concept of God without saying it's all bollocks (as I don't want to say that either)

My plan is to encourage them to learn about all the different religions including the Flying Spaghetti Monster, agnosticism and ancient religions. I trust they'll eventually come to the realisation that they are mainly stories designed to foster a sense of community and help humans survive, but aren't really needed anymore. But that doesn't stop us enjoying them at Christmas, Diwali etc.

I've always been quite forthright with my children. MIL shows no respect for my atheism so I show no respect for her religion. That sounds worse than it is, she's generally a lovely MIL but when the kids come back from visiting their grandparents with religious books and stories I don't pussyfoot around it and bluntly repeat 'some people, including PILs, believe but I don't because I understand science' (I'm a scientist). I've also had DC in tears because they've been told at school that people who don't believe in Jesus would go to hell (this is not a religious school). No fucking way am I going to pretend to respect anyone's beliefs when they tell my children crap like that.

Seems to me OP that your own beliefs are quite vague and still based on a religious viewpoint and that is why you find it difficult to counter the GP indoctrination. That's fair enough considering your religious background but I think if you keep repeating 'some people believe...' and try and answer your DS's questions honestly he'll understand in the end. Big ideas do take a long time for small children to understand, after my Dad died it took ages for the questions about death to stop. But it's part of parenting (wait till the questions about sex start) and if you'ryou're answering thoughtfully you and he will do fine.

Edmund if you tell children it's all just "stories" about God you're basically saying there is no God. That is giving your opinion. Not everyone thinks the same.

I think anyone who equates religious belief with belief in Santa are onto a loser. The average child can see through that level of ignorant stupidity

Only difference I've found is that adults generally go all out to try to prove santa is real (despite knowing he isn't). I consider that worse than having a genuine belief in something and wanting to share it (and where children are involved in that I have concerns).

if you tell children it's all just "stories" about God you're basically saying there is no God. That is giving your opinion. Not everyone thinks the same.

They're not factual accounts though.

heartstornastray but they are just stories, they are not fact are they. They will always just be stories until there is categoric proof to the contrary. A person or people can 'believe' they are true, but belief does not equate fact. It's not my opinion that there's no supernatural deity out there, that is the fact until proven otherwise. Unless you have hard evidence to the contrary? What you said in your last post is ultimate evidence that the most important thing to teach children is the difference between a belief and fact, those lines should not be blurred.

I'd be telling DC that no-one knows about God and there are lots of different stories (to explain life/the world/how we should treat each other). Lots of people believe the Jesus story like GM, and lots of people don't. People who believe these stories like to persuade everyone else that their story is the right one and everyone else's is wrong but the truth is no-one knows. There are people who's job is to persuade you to believe them. These people have persuaded GM. Sometimes it's easy to persuade people because it's nice to believe that someone is looking out for us so she's not exactly lying when she tells you these stories because she does believe them, but she's not exactly telling you the truth either. It's just a story she likes. Some people get sad or angry when other people won't believe their story. (Sometimes people get into really big fights about it)

It's usually religious or religion friendly people who bring up the santa comparison though. As in "it does kids no harm to (let schools teach them to) believe in God, you don't mind them believing in santa do you".

Sorry Edmund totally disagree, but no point in arguing over religion, just goes round and round in circles. I have my beliefs, you have yours. It's fine.

heartstornastray if you disagree, have the curtesy to explain why. I don't have a belief, I know what is fact unless it's proven otherwise. Having faith is an opinion based on the absence of evidence. You are more than welcome to prove otherwise though.

Aspergallus, I only mention the Christian stories told to children because when my DC was in KS1 at CofE school they were taught about Noah's flood. He came home with the upsetting idea that god drown millions of people just because they were bad. Not sure mass murder is age appropriate.

The comparison with Santa isn't a very good one because there is actually a lot of evidence to support his existence.

As a kind person, yes. But not in the form most children are now weaned onto.

I disagree, but obviously i can't explain why i believe because i cannot prove Gods existence in a scientific way. To me it would be far harder not to believe. I can't believe we are here by chance, there's so many things that to me tells me that we have a creator. I cant believe that evolution would give us what we have. The thing is, if i go into on here all the things that make me believe i'd probably be mocked, so suffice to say I just believe. That's all that's necessary.

I cant believe that evolution would give us what we have.

Really?

Really!

I cant believe that evolution would give us what we have.

So you'd rather believe a story about the world being magically made by a force that cannot in anyway be proven to exist, over firm evidence of evolution that you can easily see for yourself, has been tested and proven over and over again?

You're entitled to your beliefs, but refusing to accept proven fact over the stories and fables you've read really doesn't give weight to your disagreements with my posts.

We don't believe in God, but come from quite devoutly Catholic families.

We have told the children that some people believe in God, but that we don't. We believe in the scientific explanation for creation, but that Jesus was a good man, and that Christianity is a good model for living a kind and loving life (they're small - I'm leaving out the bad stuff here) and it's important to respect people's religions, because they are often very important to them. Grandma, for instance, would be very hurt if you said that God wasn't real, or said that Jesus couldn't have risen from the dead.

The creation of the universe and the Big Bang are very big thoughts to understand, and God is just another way of talking about it.

etc. etc.

We live in a Christian country and I don't want to teach them contempt for what others believe, but I don't want to lie to them for no good reason. When we talk about the bible, we talk about the Roman occupation of Judea and why the Romans would have been worried about people like Jesus and why they crucified him. But we also talk about why it's not practical to believe that he rose from the dead, even if we believe that he was a good person and that people try to live like him for good reasons.

It's a fine line to walk when you don't want to cause unnecessary hurt with grandparents!

I cant believe that evolution would give us what we have

That is an incorrect statement. You don't have to believe in evolution, go out, look at the evidence, uncover the facts, and you can prove that we evolved. Its not a belief, its knowledge.

Take out a Bible, search for the facts, look at the evidence and everyone reaches the conclusion that we can't prove a gods validity. Hence some people believe in the various gods but we dont know that any of them are actually real.

So you'd rather believe a story about the world being magically made by a force that cannot in anyway be proven to exist, over firm evidence of evolution that you can easily see for yourself, has been tested and proven over and over again?

You're entitled to your beliefs, but refusing to accept proven fact over the stories and fables you've read really doesn't give weight to your disagreements with my posts.

What proven facts are you actually talking about and what firm evidence of evolution. There's actually hardly any. All theories of evolution rot away when properly scrutinised. It still cannot explain how non living chemicals ever self assembled into the first living cell. Earths position in the universe was impossible to have come about by chance, it's been made with exact precision, perfect for our existence.

It takes a far stronger leap of faith to believe we are here by chance than the strong evidence pointing to a creator.

". Earths position in the universe was impossible to have come about by chance, it's been made with exact precision, perfect for our existence"

Nope. Other way round!

The same way you would other fairy tales.

But reminding them that some people really do believe in it so be kind to them.

How do you work that out Bertrand, everything needed for our existence sprang forth with unique body plans more than 5 hundred million years ago. Fossil records tell us this.

We evolved to match the prevailing conditions.

Believer or not, cultivating a respect and awareness of all religions and none seems to make the most sense to me. I think describing a faith as a fairy story is quite derogatory. It is perfectly possible to present the idea of different beliefs without pouring scorn on others.

I agree. The majority of the world believe in god. Encouraging your child to view millions of people with contempt is really disgraceful. It's far better to give them informed knowledge on what different people believe so they can talk to others and show tolerance. As you are agnostic a lot of the posts on here from militant atheists won't be helpful for you. I would tell your son how important it is to listen and show respect for other's beliefs, lots of people believe different things, and his belief is something he can decide when he's a bit older.