To not want to invite friend's DD over?

[PutTheKettleOn9989]

My friend has a DD who is starting school shortly. The DD pees herself most days. They've taken her to a doctor etc, and basically the issue appears to be that there is no deterrent for doing it (which is what I always expected). Much like my SS, if they are engrossed in what they are doing then they'd rather not have to get up and go to the loo. The parents don't really discipline the child, and I think she enjoys the attention she gets from doing it. She's only really happy when she's the centre of attention, so I think it's all related. All this is an aside really, just wanted to explain that I don't think the child has any serious underlying issues, just that it's behavioural (she's had tests for cystitis etc).

The last time the child visited, she wet herself (narrowly avoiding my sofa) and then, after running around with no knickers on, nearly pooed on the floor (her Mum only just noticed the 'poo dance' in time). I find it super stressful having her over, I'm always on edge wondering if she's going to pee on the sofa (this has happened at another friend's house) or if she'll pee the bed (sometimes they 'put her to bed' at mine so they can stay late).

AIBU? WWYD?

They haven't followed it up afaik.

As I said, in my area they wouldn't refer to the enuresis clinic as it's normal not to be toilet trained at age 4.

You'd replace your sofa is a four year old did a wee on it!!!!!!
To be honest I'd tell your friend how you feel and give her the option because personally I wouldn't want to be friends with someone with your views so I'd rather know so that I could choose to not see you.

YANBU for being a tad annoyed about carpets and furniture being soiled and urinated on. Whoever says they are fine with it and can sing happy tunes whilst cleaning it up is lying.
However I don't think it is necessary to ban the four year old from your house. For that YABU. In effect it is punishing the child and belittling the parent and making her feel inadequate.

Instead, invite them over as normal. Encourage outside play and bring up the conversation of "How's the toilet training going?" And instead of judging offer some advice that she may not have tried.

Believe me it is hard and frustrating when a child doesn't conform to using the loo for whatever reason.

My DS had toileting issues with number twos and would hold, leak and generally soil himself on a regular basis. I would shun anyone who wouldn't understand and banished me. Friends don't do that.

DD is almost three. Same sort of issues with her. Go away and hides when doing it and refuses to engage in the potty or toilet. When out, a pull up goes on. When home, knicks.

HV said clean them up without engaging with them or making eye contact. No attention whatsoever. They aren't being punished but it also installs that no attention comes from it either. It isn't an overnight fix. It takes a while for behaviour to change.

Be a friend and offer support, not judgement. BecUse the latter is what your friend will see if you banish them.

I think all the people who are saying YABU are being ridiculous!! The issue is someone peeing or pooing all over your stuff!!! It's not acceptable!
This isn't really an issue with the child, whatever the reason she is doing it her parents should take charge. If they know their child refuses to use the loo then they should put her in pull ups when they take her to other people's homes!!!
And you never know, if she was made to wear nappies, she might not like it and actually have a reason to use the loo!
The issue isn't the child, the issue is the parents. On what planet is it ok to let your kid shit all over the place?? Put your kid in pull ups or don't expect to be invited to people's homes. Nobody wants shite on their sofa thank you very much.
I would tell your friend, "could you please put DD in pull ups when you come round, I just find it really stressful that their will be wee or poos on my furniture/ floors, and obviously urine is really hard to get out, so this is the only way I think we can do this"
That way the parents put her in pull ups which means you have no problem, or if it is all just for attention and they are not doing anything by choice then maybe it will convince them to do something

We had terrible issues with DD1 when it came to toilet training. It was mainly with poo rather than wee, but she definitely did the wee dance. Tbf, though, 4 years old isn't that unusual for her to be still having accidents. My DD only stopped at age 7. She needed help though, and like some children she appeared to be afraid of pooing so would hold it in for a very long time and then not get to the toilet in time.

Quite honestly, it's very likely not attention seeking, as her parents are not giving her attention when she does it. It's a strategy that is recommended but I found it to embarrassing not to be more proactive than that.

What is the DD wearing? If she's wearing leggings, less mess comes out, it goes down the leggings and your furniture is more safe.

Other things: DD to use the toilet as soon as she arrives and before and after eating. There's less chance of an accident that way. If she's doing the wee dance, her mum could say lightly, I think you need the toilet, well so do I, let's go together.

I wouldn't advise pull-ups or nappies, as it is obvious when she needs to go and taking her to the toilet like I've said does work. But I put DD1 in nappies a couple of times out of desperation and she still remembers it today, so it's a real humiliation at that age.

They could be a lot more proactive without thinking about a deterrent. Although incentive works, we did say sometimes, you if you would like an ice cream today as a treat, you need to stay dry.

But regardless, there shouldn't be any damage to your property. Another suggestion: provide her with an old chair that you don't mind getting damaged if you have one. We've done that with our DDs, at least it reduces stress.

HTH. YANBU here m, OP, but try not to blame the DD. It will be stressful for the parents, but it shouldn't be something that you need to worry about. I don't recall ever allowing DD's accidents ever damaging someone else's furniture. We watched her like a hawk when visiting friends, despite numerous accidents. (Wow, I'm glad that time is passed!!).

If she wets the bed, that isn't her fault, and it would be U not to put her in a pull up when she visits you, if they stay overnight.

I don't think you are being unreasonable at all and I wouldn't have thought that the little girl would be a welcome visitor in other people's houses either. If your friendship means something to you, could you have a nice but honest word with her about this? You can't be the only person who thinks this way about what's going on and I would have thought that she will become very isolated before long if this continues.
Sorry you are getting abuse for this. I actually think you are pretty nice having her back at yours if this keeps happening.

Oh no way! Sorry I think the OP is getting a really hard time here for not wanting someone else's kids to wee and poo on her belongings! Ridiculous. It's grim enough when it's your own childs bodily fluids making a mess let alone someone elses.

When you are toilet training a young child, you stay at home for a week to ten days teaching them. They mess in your own home, that's just part and parcel. You don't take them out while they are still untrained and let them go everywhere in someone else's home - if you go out you should be ensuring the mess is contained. Pull ups etc.

Child obviously knows she needs to go as she's 'doing the dance'. If mum was paying attention she'd whip her off to the toilet quickly. So yes, if she knows she needs to go and doesn't alert mum (then makes a mess) she should be told that's not ok. No need for harsh discipline but she can't go around thinking it's ok to mess yourself and other people's property when you could have made it to the toilet.

OP just meet your friend elsewhere until it's sorted. If she asks why, tell her nicely and if she doesn't ask don't mention it. It's not your place to tell your friend how to train or discipline their kid, but it's entirely up to you if you don't want her at your house - for any reason.

Just to point out to those referring to this child peeing and shitting all over the OPs house, can I just point out that according to the OP, the little girl wet herself ONCE ( and didn't actually pee on the sofa) and has in fact, never had a poo accident.

Added to that the OP seems ( based on her previous threads) more than a few issues about other people's kids, I suggest that people calm down a little. If you don't want to spend time with people with small children, with the inevitable mess that sometimes accompanies them, then it won't be long before they don't want to spend time with you either.

Just adding that I don't think it's your place to advise your friend on how to discipline her child or how to deal with this. For all you know she may be dealing with it in her own way even if it isn't apparent to you. But it would be fair to explain how unacceptable it is when it is happening in your home - although you are the best judge of how she would react!

Is this the same OP who didn't want said child to come to an adults only lunch that she'd arranged in a nice restaurant? If so, I don't think that means she has a problem with other peoples kids - it means she has a friend who thinks the world and it's aunt need to bend over backwards to accommodate her child even when it's not appropriate (like at an adults only event) or the child is behaving inappropriately (piddling on someone's else's sofa!)

I don't think anyone is giving the op a hard time for not wanting her stuff weed and pooed on. I think that is a standard feeling most people can sympathise with.
It's more the blaming of the parents and the outdated suggesting that the child should be punished that is getting backs up. How her friends choose to tackle toilet training is none of the ops business and she doesn't appear to be aware of current advice. She's under no obligation to have the child in her home. If she is going to invite a child who she knows has frequent accidents to her home it's a bit silly to complain about the inevitable mess.

Is this the same OP who didn't want said child to come to an adults only lunch

Same OP, different friend/child.

more understanding friendships

Are more understanding friends those who like their sofa being soaked with piss? Nobody is saying flog the girl, but surely a parent should gently and firmly tell the child that she needs to use the toilet when she wets herself? That's not disciplining, it's just parenting. I also don't understand why the parents don't insist that she wears a pull-up when they are at someone else's house. Yes, they may not be good all the time, but if she won't go to the toilet when she needs it, she will have to wear it when they are out and about.

She will also have problems at school and the teacher/TA will tell her that she needs to use the toilet if she wets her clothes. Won't that be confusing for her if she gets told that by her teacher but her parents don't bat an eyelid when she does it? They are doing her no favours.

Teacher or ta will very gently remind her to go to the loo next time. They won't be firm with her or put her on time out.

YANBU for not wanting your sofas/bed pee'd or poo'd on. If this was my child I would probably put pull ups on when visiting as I would be completely mortified if they ruined my friends furniture.

When I was potty training my daughter I used the disposable protection sheets on my own sofas to save them, maybe you could use these if they come over?

Same OP, different friend/child

Ah thanks. Op, I agree, In neither instance are you unreasonable in isolation but you do seem to have issues with other folks kids. Does anyone you know have kids you don't have problems with?

Teacher or ta will very gently remind her to go to the loo next time. They won't be firm with her or put her on time out

The point is they will tell her. I don't think she should be punished or put in time out or anything, but she needs to be told. If the parents do nothing, how will she learn? Being firm doesn't mean shouting- it means saying 'DD, you know we go to the toilet to have a wee, we do not wee on the floor'. It really won't help her at school to pretend that she doesn't have a problem.

Bluntness100 it's not really that she has a 'problem' with the other kid though? Maybe the problem she has is that her friends are inconsiderate- bringing a 4 yo to an unsuitable venue and letting another 4 yo wee on a friend's sofa, bed and carpet. Sounds like the OP's issue in both cases is with the parents, not the children.

I was going to say you're not unreasonable, and the parents need to take some responsibility, even if that is wearing pull ups or keeping a closer eye.

I'm sorry, what? The parents need to take "some" responsibility? Are you having a laugh, or did you really just infer that the OP should take some of the responsibility of someone else's untrained child shitting and pissing in their house? The parents should take all the responsibility. If their child is not reliably toilet trained, the child wears pullups when visiting other people's houses, end of. And everyone's missed that the child was running around with no knickers on, in someone else's house. That's revolting. The parents are seriously lax here.

OP, I'm with you. Just stop inviting them round.

The op hasn't said that they don't remind her to go on the loo next time just that they don't discipline her for wetting which is quite right imo.

And if the op is inviting a child round knowing they have frequent accidents then she is responsible for any damage to her property as well imo. No one is forcing her to have the child over.

No, it's all the parents' responsibility. And since she does the 'wee dance' it's obvious they need to go so they need to just take her to the toilet. No need for pull ups but no excuse for not taking her to the toilet when it's obvious she needs to go.

It actually sounds like laziness tbh.

Yanbu why would you want a dc round who,will ruin your home. I could not stand it either.

Kind of stunned by how many people think the OP is 'mean' for not wanting a child pissing and shitting on her furniture.

Yes, some children have continence issues and that's a shame. It is not, however, the OP's problem. If your child can't go anywhere without soiling the furniture you either put them in nappies or you don't take them to other people's houses. A one-off accident can't be helped but if you know full well your child predictably wets and soils herself every day, you can't expect to make that other people's problem. YANBU, OP.