Hotel restaurant and iPads etc

[mckenzie]

We are on holiday and staying in a hotel with breakfast included.
Settle nicely at a table this morning, in the shade, over lookimgbthe gardens, watching the birds on the ledge. A family then take the table next to us.

The older child (I'm guessing age 5) is given an iPad and starts playing a game with noice so we can hear ping and pong and clapping and other computer type noises.
The younger child (I'm guessing 18 months) has a phone propped up in front of her and is watching a video of some sort so we can hear high pitched animated voices and weird music.

AIBU to expect the family to think of others and provide said children with headphones?

We don't actually go out often, so mostly we ARE locked away from you all so @Pigletwaspoohsfriend can rejoice at this!

Ooh grow up. No where have I said no one should go out.

Plus the fact you have no idea of my family circumstances either so maybe stop throwing stupid comments around.

I so wish I didn't need to listen to other people's iPads/phones etc when in a restaurant.
I've had years of Thomas the tank and the wiggles etc. I don't want to listen to it now.
But the common theme now seems to be, that if you actually do ask /get the waiter to ask them to turn it down lower, that's unreasonable?

I am surprised the restaurant manager didn't say anything as people like that lower the tone of his joint!

I'm going to be a bit controversial and say I think giving iPads to children with sn in a lot of cases is lazy parenting . My son is 6 and non verbal , we made the mistake of giving him an iPad when he was about 2 . He couldn't independently play and used to cry a lot . Frankly it shut him up and we were all happier . As he got older he wanted it more and more , from the moment he woke up he signed iPad and would cry if I said no ... anyways fast forward to when he was 4 and we binned it . It's very easy to get stuck in a rut of it keeping them quiet but we went cold turkey and within days he improved ( after the initial week of being upset without it ) . Now at 6 he plays so well and communicates so much better . We have recently been on holiday and had to wait for our food for about an hour in between ordering and sitting etc. We made conversation ( as well as he can ) and then played games with our hands etc ... it is possible to have a child with sn who isn't reliant on electronic devices . I'm the sort of person who doesn't want their evening / day ruined by other people's noise so I would never inflict it on anyone else ... and yes I would stay at home if I couldn't manage my son in public ...

Flowegrrl and Spikey thank you!

Imjessie - we are fortunate (haha don't get to say THAT often!!) in that Thomas loves his kindle but knows that it isn't attached to him. We went on a short break to the broads - every day multiple times we were out feeding the swans. We went on a boat trip - a paddle steamer - he didn't have kindle until about 20 minutes before the end of that tour. We hired a day launch for a few hours and didn't even take it as; yes we had our own body weight in bread for the swans. But!! In the car/ on the day we thought Noah was gonna be needed/ the afternoon when he'd not slept well the night before and was a tad tetchy (despite ALL of our attempts - even NANNY couldn't settle him!) The kindle came out and we took turns to play with him on it. So i feel your pain but he isn't hooked on it. Xxc

@Pigletwaspoohsfriend Plus the fact you have no idea of my family circumstances either so maybe stop throwing stupid comments around

This I will say, sure, I don't, same goes in reverse. You've no idea how other people judging affected my 15 year old when he was a toddler other ppl made bring out awful which massively affected how he is now, my 9yr old also autistic child copes WAY better publically because I just grew thicker skin!

I wish I knew 15 years ago when I do know, but of course everyone wishes that. I also WISH he had iPads back then!

My daughter does when needed and she is also perfectly able to chat until she needs to close herself down from the world which an iPad can help her with. When she is ready she'll come back for more conversation.

So yea, I get to parent how suits me and my children, and do you know what? You get to do the same.

How my son was affected by MY inability to have a thick skin 15 years back is why I defend people rights so vehemently to use modern tools OR NOT if they don't wish. I'll be the thick skin defending.

Can't fully defend ofc, don't know how loud it actually was here, don't know the family, I've not lived in their shoes! But neither do YOU know how this family was!

The OP was able to just move so issue was over super fast. Using tools helped my daughter to cope publically, my son copes better now WITH the tools, but he DID grow up locked at home till he went to school due to judging ppl! I gave up going out with him at all, even mother/toddler groups.
Sure, my own fault I know. I just wish we'd had the modern crutches then....

I'm sorry Leigh but your posts are pretty angry, there is never any need for name calling.

It is possible to have a child with sn who isn't reliant on SN of course it is. However we need to be careful to not assume that what works for one works for all.

When we first started discussing autism as a diagnosis for DS his fantastic teacher said "when you have met one child with autism you have met one child with autism" and that applies to SN (and children) in general.

A lot of the time DS is fine without his iPad, sometimes he needs it as sticking his headphones in and getting lost in horrible histories or whatever is the only way he can block out the world around him to prevent sensory overload. JUst the same as sometimes he is fine without his sunglasses in other times they are essential! --hence me carrying a bursting rucksack everywhere we go!

Thankfully the charity that funded the iPad know just how vital they can be for some children!

Imjessie what works for your 6 year old isn't always going to work for other children some who will have very severe sensory difficulties. For some people it is far more than shutting up a child. My own older child gets very aggressive when he can't cope and he hurts himself and we get hurt and if we weren't right on to it, others could get hurt. We don't use tablets because they have no interest for him but if they did, we would.
Be careful with saying you would stay home. Things can change.

@imjessie I too feel your pain, but, thankfully I have taught moderation and alternate things, my daughter sometimes doesn't even pick her iPad up for weeks!

I still reserve to thought to use it should be need a crutch to help her mentally shut down and reset though. Which sometimes she does, sometimes not!

Do you know, it's funny, we were visiting my mum yesterday and ate out. My 15 year old complained in a cafe yesterday as it happens! Kids running wild! Not an iPad in sight in the building btw. I kinda wish some tables did, because the cutlery table became a mass of screwed up napkins!

I helped HIM understand that how their parents parent is not up to him!! Conversation on what isn't his business, and how easy it will be to ignore the sound if he just focuses on me/us

Hey guess what everyone! Not one of my kids used an iPad that day!! Using sometimes doesn't mean always using, doesn't mean they NEED always, but sometimes they might.

My kids don't go to restaurants often but they can at least string a sentence together and make eye contact.

Haha anyone who knows ds knows he has plenty to say for himself. His teachers said laat year that he has the best general knowledge for his age that they've encountered and he won a certificate for his ability to participate in class discussion. You see, thankfully 'parenting' happens all the time, not just in restaurants. We play family games together, go out for walks, cycle, swim, visit places etc. My ds's favourite thing to do when he has a question none of us can answer is to 'Google it'. He has an insatiable thirst for knowledge which we are very happy to assist him with. Additionally he's well mannered and adults comment on how interesting he is. It's because he's bright that we struggle to contain his enthusiasm for discovering what he can make things do in calmer settings, like restaurants. We too are very proud of our lovely boy. People coming on here and telling me we're lazy and that we're damaging him by allowing him a tablet, ON LOW/ SILENT for 30 mins while we wait for food can jog on.

I'm with you OP. The scenario you describe, I haven't experienced once, but almost every single time we've been away in nice hotels. They can't all be children with learning difficulties?

The thing is, these parents seem to think they are doing the right thing and that a little noise from an ipad/phone is not much annoyance compared to them entertaining their kids/telling them off. Well I would much rather sit next to a family where the kids start misbehaving -ie. normal children behaviour, and then have the parents telling their kids, not shouting but firmly to stop their behaviour and interacts with them, even if this is a bit nosier than a retired couple sitting next to us!

Swingofthings I completely agree, and I really don't understand why one family's needs trumps everyone else's!

@swingofthings sure I bang on about SN but quite frankly how someone chooses to parent is up to them. You might prefer to sit near ppl who are having to coax kids verbally. But it's really not up to anyone else at other tables what someone else on a different table is up to. I love the story above about the child excelling at school but also is allowed to use modern tools! So much info to be had!

I did say in a lot of cases, not all . And yes obviously all our children are different but I do still believe our children are still very susceptible to the rules of nature / nurture and my son's outcome isn't inevitable. I am very careful to not let my son's behaviour affect other people as when I do get a break I want peace and quiet . I will however avoid family friendly places and eat later to enable this .

flowegrrrl, indeed, but my philosophy is that there are rules about being considerate to others around you in environments that call for this.

I don't go to public swimming pools on Saturday afternoon because I know it will be full of screaming kids. It would be unreasonable of me to go there and they complain of the noise.

However, in a nice hotel restaurant, it is reasonable to expect to be able to have a conversation without being disturbed by annoying background noise.

Like most people annoyed by it, I too was a mum of young kids and I too had to take them places where the expectation was for them not to disturb others. They were little when the first portable DVDs came out and I thought it was the best toy in the world! However, there was no alternative offered, they either put the earphones on, or they had to sit quietly. They quickly got used to the first, even if at first they didn't like it!

Reasonly fair point, thing is, until recently, they didn't make headphones small enough for my 2 who have microcephaly (fancy medical word for teeny tiny head) (I have a third neurotypical child too)

I would do my best to have the he sound barely audible to me ON THE SAME TABLE to ensure it wasnt excessive. Now I insist my kids use headphones should iPads be needed (which they might not need)

I accept that some kids can't use headphones, maybe for a medical reason maybe a physical reason. I still can't just pick up any headphones for my kids, even my 15 yr old! So if they'd broken I can't just pop into Tesco or whatever, I have to order the tiny ones! Again, I'd make them use it fairly quietly though. I got the impression from the OP's message that whilst she could hear the sound, it wasn't blaring at full volume, could be wrong in my reading of it though.

@franciscrawford that wasnt what I meant and you know it.

Personally I'd be intimidated by the swearing family and would leave. As for devices, reasonable volume or headphones if headphones are possible. Not to demand someone doesn't use them at all. Hope that clears up my words.

Supermoon. Ever heard the phrase "walk a mile in my shoes "?
I'm sick to the back teeth of people judging! I was having a conversation at Great Ormond Street Hospital the other day with a mum whose little boy was fascinated by me peg feeding Thomas (he doesn't drink so has to have fluid straight into his tummy). She said to me 'sorry he's staring- he's got one (PEG) and has never seen anyone else using one!! I said "don't be silly of course it's ok - I'd be a millionaire if I had a penny for everyone who stared at us while I'm doing his PEG!! just wish people would be a bit more forthright and say ere; wossat??!""
So yeah, apologies but where do I send my shoes?

The argument of this thread is as ever on MN being derailed by the minority...

Sure, in MY case headphones now exist small enough for my 15yr old and I would be using them should he use his iPad (he didn't at all yesterday). As for the swearing family? Yes, totally, approving them doing so by leaving, nothing to do with the safety and mental health of my 3 children, 2 of which are autistic with other disabilities thrown in to the mix too. Nope, nothing to do with me choosing which battles in life are worth it all all!

My 15 yr old might, if I were to try and confront the swearing loud scary table, end up breaking things or people. Ofc you couldn't KNOW that, but doesn't mean my choosing NOT to confront them is approval of their behaviour.... I'm pretty sure a different table entirely would have THIER meal affected by THAT explosion!

I spent YEARS working on his temper, you don't know him, don't presume it's even possible for me to confront another family. Your description of this other table that is completely hypothetical sounds more like a phone the police Jobbie tbh! Suggesting not approaching them is approval of THAT antisocial behaviour is daft.