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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU - to feel unsupported in my feminist beliefs in the playground

459 replies

Goldiloz · 28/08/2017 21:46

I feel like this is the straw that broke the camels back.
I don't understand why mothers aren't supporting women's rights at primary school. Surely most sane people think that girls should be given the same opportunities as boys. We shouldn't pigeon hole 50% of the population just because they will grow up to have boobs and maybe pop out a kid or two. I feel like I am fighting a losing battle listening to some of the other mums in the playground.
It ranges from presents at birthday parties. The 'norm' seems to be buying girls creative/pink stuff unless they are a 'Tom boy' when they can get 'boy' stuff instead. And boys are only given sports and superhero stuff.
And party bags! Separate ones for boys and girls????
I just don't understand why women fail to see the issue with this and continue to justify it with generalised comments about 'most boys' and 'most girls'.
AIBU to expect more from modern women?

OP posts:
saltandvinegarcrisps1 · 28/08/2017 22:57

Lindtnotlint - I was thinking exactly the same. Was just about to leave the thread as so depressed to read the anti-feminust views of so many. Things like "I'm not a feminist as I've never been done wrong" etc - yes you have! Example - until 1994, new drugs were only ever researched using men therefore women were given medicines in doses that had never been tested or the benefits proven in research. Women are paid lower for comparable jobs. Women's medical issues are trivialized. All these Things happen because women are subordinated in society and a key part of that is teaching girls to be pretty (in pink), soft, compliant whereas boys are taught to be strong, outspoken and to lead. Gendered toys/clothing etc is a classic example of every day sexism which denies women true equality.

Amdrambamcamdam · 28/08/2017 22:58

Using the term "feminazi" is like waving a flag that says "I'm a giant fucking idiot" to the rest of the world.

Liking gender equality is nothing like trying to murder five million Jews.

NataliaOsipova · 28/08/2017 22:59

It tells her a tonne about what it is acceptable to be and acceptable to like

I do think that's a step too far. I would say it tells her about what people who don't know her very well think that she might like. So - I (and I'm pretty sure my DD) inferred from the fact that she got 15 Smiggle pencil cases for her birthday that a lot of the girls in her class like shopping at Smiggle. Not that it wasn't okay to have a pencil case from somewhere else. Equally, she was given several copies of books to do with Harry Potter. She's already decided for herself that she's not that keen on those books. Receiving them as a gift didn't make her question that preference, it just reminded her that others have different tastes and interests from hers.

Can I accept the point that it might make an insecure child question her own preferences? I can - but that's a function of that child not being secure in her own decisions and prone to want to fit in with the crowd, not (I think, anyway) a function of having been told that something isn't "acceptable".

Fruitcorner123 · 28/08/2017 23:00

stickthatinyourpipe in a way its almost sexist in itself,to assume that girls can't make their own decisions about what they like because we 'force'' pink on them.

My son had a doll and pushchair when he was small does that mean he might grow up to think he must be a nurturer and can't be a leader?

Amdrambamcamdam · 28/08/2017 23:01

If girls and boys were so naturally different our society wouldn't have to keep telling them how to act.

'That's not ladylike!'
'Boys don't cry!'

All instilled from an early age because it's not natural. And when children hear that something isn't for them, they then either reject it or decide they're actually the wrong bloody sex now.

Countrygardener21 · 28/08/2017 23:01

I agree with you OP.

Sayyouwill · 28/08/2017 23:01

I swear, some people will only be happy when we are living in a beige world.

ReanimatedSGB · 28/08/2017 23:01

Yeah, parents who make a big deal out of gender-policing party bags are the dumbfuck ones. It's completely unnecessary, as well as making more work for yourselves - a couple of pencils, a balloon, a toy whistle (if you think the guests' parents could do with a bit more noise in their lives) and a slice of cake is fine.

ragged · 28/08/2017 23:02

I've done separate boy-girl party bags, & would do again.

One time DS accidentally got something from the girl's lucky dip at the school fete. Boy was he annoyed about it.

SmileEachDay · 28/08/2017 23:02

Salt

until 1994, new drugs were only ever researched using men therefore women were given medicines in doses that had never been tested or the benefits proven in research.

I did NOT know that! Do you have a link to any source which states it? I don't disbelieve you, but I do like a fact checked source Grin

StickThatInYourPipe · 28/08/2017 23:02

Fruitcorner123 Exactly!

I wouldn't worry too much though, I had all of the bits you have mentioned in your PP and I'm a well respected Manager, paid either the same or slightly more than the other males in my company in similar roles so couldn't have been too damaging to be allowed freedom of choice when it came to toys!

TatianaLarina · 28/08/2017 23:05

Well I think all those who claim they would avoid you are doing you a favour OP. The posters who get it are markedly more intelligent.

Everyone on this thread should read 'Delusions of Gender'. If they can prize themselves away from pink glitter.

What? I thought females liked that stuff? It's in their DNA apparently. Or is it?

Amdrambamcamdam · 28/08/2017 23:05

One time DS accidentally got something from the girl's lucky dip at the school fete. Boy was he annoyed about it.

Did you tell him to stop being such an entitled brat?

mirialis · 28/08/2017 23:07

then children hear that something isn't for them, they then either reject it or decide they're actually the wrong bloody sex now

this.

Can't believe people are still so fucking blind in the 21st century to think there are boy things and girl things and not a whole range of things that we can all like and do without "going against the grain"

The difference between male and female is biology and the difference in biology does NOT dictate what colours you like or whether you like language or maths etc, and certainly not before your hormones have even kicked in (for those who like to believe that they are the things that make all the difference re: colour preferences, unicorns and sparkly Hmm)

Come on people, use your brain.

Alanna1 · 28/08/2017 23:08

I agree with the OP. It annoys me. I try really hard to have a range of toys. The gender-based marketing is horrible. I loathe blue and pink party bags. And by the way I am fine with pink - it's what you pair it with!

ReanimatedSGB · 28/08/2017 23:08

Also, there wouldn't be such a frenzy of gender-policing if it wasn't for the fact that gender is a hierarchy. The world is based in the idea that females are inferior to males, so anyone who behaves in a way that crosses gender boundaries is questioned and punished. Even if you parent your own children in a way that avoids sexism, you can't protect them from the idiots who say things like 'You can't play with that, it's for boys/girls' and 'People will think you're [the other sex]' - as though that's a Terrible Thing.

Just consider the different feelings you have about a child being called a tomboy or a sissy. One is a warm, tolerant thing (child aspiring to something higher than her assigned status) the other is a criticism (child is going to be percieved as lower than his assigned status).

Rosti1981 · 28/08/2017 23:09

YANBU - yes some boys like trains and girls like princesses but doesn't mean all do, or should be forced into particular gender roles. It's the uncritical part that I find so hard to understand. I don't make a big thing about it, but I have gently suggested things like not having boy/girl lucky dips at school fetes. To the extent where my pink loving younger son was redirected forcibly towards the blue box, when he is a) 3 and b) V clear that at the moment his preference would be for the pink things. Feels like many don't really get it or even question why it might be an issue. It's depressing tbh though I do suck it up most of the time for the sake of not being "that" parent. I buy whatever presents children are interested in for parties, so that does include dolls/craft things/sparkly things for girls if that is what they have asked for. But I don't assume and I definitely prefer it when party bags are the same for everyone- better still pick a book + piece of cake rather than all the plastic tat (that they love, I know....)

Oswin · 28/08/2017 23:10

Fruit corner it's not that girls are so helpless and brainwashed.

If you are told from birth that you need to be nurturing you will outwardly do so.

You can say well dd plays with what she likes. That's great. But society as a whole isn't like that. We enforce gender roles or kids.

Fruitcorner123 · 28/08/2017 23:12

The posters who get it are markedly more intelligent.

So in other words we can only be considered intelligent if we agree with you? Well if we are all that thick then its probably a good job that there aren't too many of us in leadership roles. At least standing at the school gate is a brainless activity.

saltandvinegarcrisps1 · 28/08/2017 23:14

Smile/Amdram - this was the one I was referring to;
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1761670/

BertrandRussell · 28/08/2017 23:14

"One time DS accidentally got something from the girl's lucky dip at the school fete. Boy was he annoyed about it."

I hope you told him not to be an arse?

saltandvinegarcrisps1 · 28/08/2017 23:15

Taken from the article;
It was in 1994 that the US National Institutes of Health (NIH) issued a guideline for the study and evaluation of gender differences in clinical trials to ensure that the safety and efficacy of drugs would be adequately investigated in the full range of patients who would use the therapy.4 Prior to this policy, women had been excluded from early studies of most drugs—mainly for safety reasons, but this prohibition meant there was little information about the effects of drugs in women. For example, women may have a different drug efficacy or side effect profile to men.

SmileEachDay · 28/08/2017 23:18

Salt brilliant! Thank you!

Fruitcorner123 · 28/08/2017 23:19

but then oswin shouldnt we be looking at the way schools and pre-schools manage this instead of blaming other women and their gift buying.

I am not disagreeing that there are problems with gender stereotyping I am disagreeing with blaming school mums for buying certain presents and having certain items in party bags. Its just not the main issue

I also massively object to this pervading idea, running through quite a few of the comments, that school mums are not that bright and probably more traditional ( and less feminist) in their views. Surely thats a stereotype in itself and women should not be blaming other women in this way for the way out society is shaped.