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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU - to feel unsupported in my feminist beliefs in the playground

459 replies

Goldiloz · 28/08/2017 21:46

I feel like this is the straw that broke the camels back.
I don't understand why mothers aren't supporting women's rights at primary school. Surely most sane people think that girls should be given the same opportunities as boys. We shouldn't pigeon hole 50% of the population just because they will grow up to have boobs and maybe pop out a kid or two. I feel like I am fighting a losing battle listening to some of the other mums in the playground.
It ranges from presents at birthday parties. The 'norm' seems to be buying girls creative/pink stuff unless they are a 'Tom boy' when they can get 'boy' stuff instead. And boys are only given sports and superhero stuff.
And party bags! Separate ones for boys and girls????
I just don't understand why women fail to see the issue with this and continue to justify it with generalised comments about 'most boys' and 'most girls'.
AIBU to expect more from modern women?

OP posts:
OnlyAmy · 28/08/2017 22:30

I am so glad my DP was raised as a boy! I like men to be men, testosterone and all. And, I am pretty sure he likes that I started out as a girl! I work in a mostly male field, (roadway engineering) and have no issues with the feminine/masculine thing. I think the men notice I'm female and I notice they're men. Doesn't affect what I do at all, and I was a girl that loved dolls and crafts and princesses. No matter how people try to re-engineer human nature, girls will hang out with girls and take their clues from the pack, and boys do the same. It's in our DNA.

nakedscientist · 28/08/2017 22:33

op: When my first DC was a baby I would have completely agreed with you.
Now with one little and a clutch of teens and kidults I am inclined to say there are much bigger fish to fry. It's the example you set of how you live your life, how you respect eachother as a couple, your own aspirations/ career choices, attitudes that really made the difference in the long run.

Pink/blue/dolls/cars meh.

shivermytimbers · 28/08/2017 22:33

Unicorn do you actually have that many conversations with people regarding the ins and outs of feminist theory, on a regular basis, to the point where you feel like someone has personified Christ in their pursuit of manipulating your firmly held, contrary beliefs?
Or... have you got a bit flustered by something you read in the paper that might be slightly contradictory to your own viewpoint?
I'm not sure what bitch litre feminists are. So I can't comment on that

working925 · 28/08/2017 22:33

Sorry but I'd move away from you too. My girls love pink and anything sparkly, unicorns and fairies. My son likes reasonably neutral things but happy with a pink shirt. They're different - they just are! I seriously fear for people who try to change this. What exactly are you trying to achieve???

Fruitcorner123 · 28/08/2017 22:33

Do you honestly not see how the party bags reinforce the same stereeotypes that make girls believe they can't be leaders?

I honestly don't. They're just bags full of plastic tat and sweets and my kids ( one boy one girl) have a policy of sharing theirs anyway unless they have both been to the same party. Why would getting a my little pony pencil instead of a spiderman pencil make them less likely to be leaders?

NearlyFree17 · 28/08/2017 22:33

OP why are you blaming just women (mothers) for this?? Surely men need to take responsibility as well r

StickThatInYourPipe · 28/08/2017 22:35

WhooooAmI24601

I completely agree with you.

Tomorrowillbeachicken · 28/08/2017 22:35

I did think the BBC series that finished last week about removing gender stereotypes from classrooms was very interesting though.

userlotsanumbers · 28/08/2017 22:36

YANBU

I scream inside also.

Incidentally, @UnicornQueen where's the evidence to support the 'fact' that human females are naturally attracted to the colour pink? I'd like to read that scientific study.

EenyMeenyMo · 28/08/2017 22:36

I agree with OSWIN Its not in our DNA its in our upbringing! But i think by primary school some of it is more hardwired due to all the stereotyping...
and I would say (and am prepared to be slated) that maybe there is less of a feminist tendency in mums doing the school run than in the overall population as these may contain more traditional beliefs.

BoomBoomsCousin · 28/08/2017 22:40

It bothered me too OP. It's so hard to move away from. But I have found there are quite a few people who aren't prepared to take any kind of a stand, but are still very exasperated by it all, which has been somewhat comforting.

Fruitcorner123 · 28/08/2017 22:41

If a parent forces their own child to play with gender specific toys they have not chosen clearly that is not right. They should have the freedom to choose

When I buy for children at parties I try and be thoughtful if I know the child or I ask my children what X would like but the present I buy isn't important enough to influence whether the child will have opportunities in their future and the party bag will be in the bin by the end of the week so honestly I do think the examples are trivial.

Cuppaand2biscuits · 28/08/2017 22:41

My friends child goes to a primary school where girls aren't allowed to wear trousers and I can't believe that no one has challenged that.
It's a state school and girls must wear a blouse with skirt while boys can wear a polo tshirt and trousers or shorts.

Lindtnotlint · 28/08/2017 22:43

This thread has made me want to leave mumsnet. OP your points are completely fair. It makes me cry that there are so many people who think that the intense and highly policed (often by kids themselves) division of primary school kids into "pink" and "blue" is just natural and Ok. Of course it isn't a life and death issue. But does it matter? Well when my daughter receives 18 birthday presents related on princesses, pink and fairies because of pure stereotyping by other parents (who really don't know her) then yes it does matter. It tells her a tonne about what it is acceptable to be and acceptable to like. Free choice my arse.

Fruitcorner123 · 28/08/2017 22:45

eenymeenyo can I take from your statement about school mums that you believe the choice to be a SAHM or work part time hours or from home to fit around your child is an anti-feminist decision?

PrideOfLions · 28/08/2017 22:45

I like men to be men, testosterone and all that - that is a pretty scary sentence OnlyAmy.

Are male dancers men? Male primary school teachers? The NICU nurse who let me cry on his shoulder and was unbelievably tender with my preemie - not much evidence of testosterone fuelled behaviour so not really a man?

Fruitcorner123 · 28/08/2017 22:48

these are people who don't know your child getting a present wrong. Surely their upbringing and schooling have far far more of an influence on the child that something like that.

As I said earlier in the thread my daughter received girly presents on her last birthday but is still playing with her favourite types of toys now. She hasn;t just fallen in with it and decided that she only likes pink.

notangelinajolie · 28/08/2017 22:49

Of course all children should have the same opportunities and be treated in the same way but guess what? Girls and Boys are not the same and no amount of gender neutral conditioning is ever going to change that. I despair sometimes ...

Shamoo · 28/08/2017 22:52

Seriously, why would anybody even contemplate gender specific party bags? I can't comprehend that this actually happens?

Tomorrowillbeachicken · 28/08/2017 22:52

Boys and girls brains are the same as are their physical abilities pre puberty though.

StickThatInYourPipe · 28/08/2017 22:52

Fruitcorner123 see this is what I don't understand. It seems accepted that girls are so weak minded that if you give them a pink toy, they will then only like pink and think they can't be leaders etc.

I just find this bizarre all the small children I know like what they like. If the girls are given something overly girly they don't like, they don't suddenly become a drone of walking stereotype! They just say thank you and go back to whatever toy they do enjoy playing with.

ReanimatedSGB · 28/08/2017 22:52

YANBU at all. I always give gender-neutral presents and always did gender-neutral party bags. (Before the really stupid start screaming this means... Crayons. Colouring books. Lego. Animals. Books about animals/nature. Stuff about ghosts/dinosaurs/the universe.Sweets. These are all things that kids (probably) like. Yeah, you'll get the individual kid who would prefer dinosaurs to building bricks, etc, but that's no more of a big deal than giving a kid a present the kid already has enough of.)

I was That Parent a couple of times when DS was younger. He once came home with a really awful, misogynistic reading book and I went and had a very firm word with the class teacher the next day.

Voiceforreason · 28/08/2017 22:55

Party bags weren't a problem when they contained a balloon, some sweets and a piece of birthday cake.

BertrandRussell · 28/08/2017 22:55

Sorry, op, I am 100% with you. But I've been ill, so I have less energy for the fight than usual. But you are absolutely right. Don't allow yourself to be diverted.

mirialis · 28/08/2017 22:56

Agree OP - tired of hearing "but it's natural, girls just do like dolls and boys just do like trains and we didn't do anything to encourage that".

FGS do people really think this stuff is ingrained even before hormones come into play? Are they really so blind to how the ingrained attitudes of the people their children come into contact are massively influential?

Separate party bags for little boy and girls says it all.

Good to see you are 'despised' for your opinion by another woman. hmm]

Of course this should be an issue for dads as much as mums but people have got to be pretty stupid not to be able to work out why that's not the case.