Would you move to America if you were me?

[BenDuck]

DP is from the US and we have talked for a while about going to live there (East coast) and the conversations are now getting more serious, he is starting to look for jobs etc. I'm still feeling really conflicted though. Part of me wants to, mostly because I fucking HATE brexit and like to be away from it all but also because we would be able to afford a really lovely house there. There is loads of stuff that bothers me though- having to drive everywhere, lower food standards, Trump.
I also worry about my position legally. I'm currently a SAHM but earn a little doing evening work (that I wouldn't be able to do there) so would be v reliant on DH. Esp. as would be hard to get a working visa. I worry about what would happen were we to divorce- would I be stuck there unable to bring DC back to UK (they have dual citizenship)?
Anyone been in a similar boat???

My brother moved to the East Coast a few months ago with his wife and family. He works for a US company and gets his car and house paid for. He was on 45k working for the same company in the U.K. and his wife earned about 20k working here. She isn't able to work there yet but hopes to be able to soon. They are finding money very tight over there and it's much more expensive that they imagined.
I haven't asked but I would imagine he negotiated a pay rise on moving over. When they went to look at their rental property the landlady warned them that their next door neighbours were black and she hoped that wouldn't bother them! They found that really shocking.

Yes, moving away or downsizing (property taxes are lower on a smaller property) is quite common.

In many cases there are property tax reductions in towns where there are no children in the school -- my grandparents, for example, get a rebate on their property tax for that reason.

Do they then generally move out to an area with lower taxes?

Sometimes, but some communities have tax breaks for older residents.

There are so many variations, though. DH and I live in a county with a relatively low real estate tax rate, but with a large population of wealthy people who live in very high value properties (lots of ocean front property). So a healthy amount of money rolls in to fund schools and other services. Happily for those of us more ordinary middle class folk, they spread that money all over the county so our schools are just as good as the ones in the wealthier parts of the county. We no longer have children in school, but we do have grandchildren who are in one of the best school systems in the country, and the good schools and low tax rate prop up house values and make resale fairly easy if we do decide to move in the future.

squoosh - often, but not always

Our town (with excellent schools but high property taxes) also has fantastic parks, large well stocked libraries, and good police force / fire brigade, efficient council, well run recreation centre and loads of activities for older people. All this stuff is mostly paid for from property taxes too, so it is a great place to be old (if you could cope with the cold and snow)

Meals out could cost $200, but could equally give us change from $50, depending where we went. A decent, everyday drinkable bottle of wine was about $10 - I think alcohol tax is very variable across states? Brilliant public transport, so no need for a car (though I know that this is rare in the US, and outside the metro area it would have been much harder). Very liberal, educated population on the whole. Trump supporters in the minority. No open carry, so guns only visible on police officers and security guards (I don't like it still, I must admit)

Turquoise - we found the first few months really expensive too. There's a knack to living economically (coupons, coupons, coupons!) and there are lots of up front costs that they probably didn't expect, like getting cell phones and not being able to access credit so having to buy the handset upfront

Of course you can eat for less than $200. The issue is that you are then looking at BYOB so pay about $100-130 for dinner and $15 for the wine. Where we are not much is drinkable at $10 a bottle. Of course there are bottles which are good but you will kiss a lot of frogs before you find the prince. Quite frankly I prefer to pay $5 more and know I'm going to enjoy it.

America is not a topic where you will get much sense on mumsnet mostly from those who have never even been. The food variety is higher and so is the quality of you stick to organic. There is more processed crap available but no one forces you to buy it. You will pay substantially more in property/council tax but substantially less in income tax. The state schools in general (varied hugely state by state) have smaller classes and are much better in my opinion especially at primary. The east coast is very liberal in general assuming we aren't talking Florida. Gun violence will not feature in your life unless you are extremely unlucky. Lots of places you can still leave your doors unlocked. You will drive more but on easier roads with lots of parking. The only thing that gives me pause is that you bring up divorce....don't ever move country if you think that's even remotely possible.

The east coast is very liberal in general assuming we aren't talking Florida.

There are several states on the east coast that are far more conservative than Florida.

OVienna - both of my DDs who have now graduated (from U Chicago and Georgetown) worked all their way through university. DD1 was able to pay off one of her loans as she studied. It wasn't at all unusual for students in their circles to work. Foreign students cannot work, but you are as likely to find foreign students in a state school as a private one.

On the topic of property taxes - they can vary greatly and are calculated on size of hoise, estimated value and other factors. For me, with five DCs, taxes of about $6k annually were a terrific deal in a school district that is one of the best in the state.

Want2 - we drew a line a two buck Chuck from Trader Joe's.... $6 and upwards can be drinkable with some trial and error, but $10 gives a surprising amount of choice for drinkable stuff

I definitely won't like paying UK alcohol taxes when we go back!

math
That is very impressive. Good for them!

My college is one of the most socially and politically liberal in the US. Economically- I have come to realise not so much. Lots of take up for worthy jobs at the Sierra Club et al on graduation. All well and good when you have no loans to pay and your parents are funding the flat in DC. It's interesting. I totally we that there are bubbles in the US and I may have been in one.

OP - re the idea of a postnuptial. I briefly discussed this with my lawyer and their opinion was that a postnup agreeing to let children leave in event of a future divorce may not hold up at the time of the divorce if the other parent changes their mind. This is because the courts may agree that it is in the best interest of the child to stay and can override the postnup.

However, this will also somewhat depend on the leanings of the jurisdiction you are in. Therefore you need to get specific legal advice for the state (and down even to the county level) for where you would move. I am in a particularly conservative state that tends not to allow children to leave. But if I were elsewhere I might have a better chance.

Parts of NJ are in a bubble. We live in one. We had friends over for dinner and they were complaining about tax breaks for childcare. Turns out they spend $70k a year on childcare. Their nannies aren't even qualified preschool teachers. DH and I set a 'keep your feet on the ground' budget years ago which is set at an astronomical amount of $10k a month. It's not cheap to live here and yes we are in a bubble. If you are a SAHP I think you would be absolutely fine on $6k a month (as post tax income).

I do have a clause in my prenup about repatriation upon divorce. It just says in the event of a divorce neither of us will prevent repatriation to our home country with subsequent children resident with the parent going with and staying with the parent moving.

Another bubble dweller here - 45% of our town have a higher degree, nearly 20% have a doctorate...

want2b - I wonder how a prenup vs postnup would hold up in court comparatively? Here the idea is that courts will act first in best interest of child so even if you have a legal agreement the court could still override.

We were told a prenup and post nup are given the same weight, which is minor at best. It was my MIL who wanted it in there and I was fine with it being included. No court here will keep a parent from making a living. I'm good friends with a divorce attorney and have spoken to her at length about what could happen if DH ran off with someone else. She was very clear that it would not be insurmountable for me to move back to the UK and DH would be expected to pay for flights back and forth etc. Our situation is a little different though because DH is a very high earner and we had significant savings before we bought our second home. Hiring an excellent legal team is an option for me too because I've kept working and run a business in the U.K. where I could draw down on my own money if needed.

Not everyone falls into this bucket and if like they OP you don't you do need to think long and hard before moving over. It's incredibly stressful moving to a new country and if there are any cracks in our marriage they will become craters.

It also is quite expensive here. Kids activities are so expensive too. Drives me nuts that you can't find a swim lesson for less than $25 and most cost $30-35 each. Dance lessons for DD are $25, DS does maths and chess which is $45 a week for two 45min sessions. We have grandparents give cash for holidays and birthdays, using that money for these activities. All of this adds stress to a marriage and I swear the high cost of living is why so many couples here end up divorced.

For me it depends which state. Are you talking South Carolina or New York, for example...

Also where in a state. I'd rather live in Charleston than some of the towns in rural NYS. I'd rather live in New York City than some of the rural towns in SC.

To everyone saying ‘Trump does not affect me on a daily basis’ if you truly believe this you are just not paying attention. Even if he is voted out – the decisions being made are going to have ramifications years down the line, you may believe he does ne affect you – but what about everyone else, what about your children your grand children?

I have lived in the US for 25 years and honestly I would not move here to this environment. Certainly you can find Liberal communities that appear on the outside to be nirvana, but if you live somewhere you need look at the bigger picture if you want to really assimilate into society and then bring up your children in an healthy environment.

I recently had family visit from London and the general consensus was things groceries are equally if not more expensive than London, and wine was at least double what they pay at home.

I had Diner out on Friday with DH at an Italian in our neighborhood, starters, mains, coffee and a couple of drinks after Tip $157. Eating out is no longer inexpensive.

I have seen this change over the 25 years, the US is no longer inexpensive unless you eat at the chain restaurants.

Just popping in to reiterate - OPs husband is American, the children are half American, this isn't a random expat posting. For family reasons she should seriously consider this. Her DH has lived in the UK with her for who knows how many years.

"Tonight Hilary Clinton and Obama tried to steal the sun from you good people. But, I managed to get it back. My fellow Americans watch out, we are going to do very very good things, now that I brought back the sun" as spoken by the 45th POTUS.
Good luck with your move to the US, you will need it.

I think you would be absolutely fine on $6k a month (as post tax income).

Wow! We live in Maine and our monthly post tax income is half that and we survive just fine.

newbian "Just popping in to reiterate - OPs husband is American, the children are half American, this isn't a random expat posting. For family reasons she should seriously consider this. Her DH has lived in the UK with her for who knows how many years."

What has this got to do with it. Presumably her husband met her, chose to marry her and have children with her in the UK. She doesn't owe it to him to follow him to the USA and be a trailing wife. She has said herself if they split up then she wold want to return to the UK with the kids. And others have said that she may not be able to.

So in the OP's shoes no way would I go and the fact that her dh is from the USA makes it more likely he would possibly want to stay if they split up.