To be sick and tired of women's concerns being silenced?

[MerchantofVenice]

Obviously I wouldn't dream of doing a TAAT.

But is anyone else as furious as I am that every time people try to raise legitimate concerns about the legislation about self-identity and transgender people, the whole discussion is shut down?

There's this undertone of 'Oh, you can't say that!!!' when people state scientific facts.

And at the same time, there's this myth that 'MN is one of the only places you can actually discuss the transgender debate openly.' Like fuck it is.

Your average person on the street isn't intimately acquainted with the madness of the debate and will have no qualms about stating facts. You see it on the comments after those nonsense news articles ("Man gives birth"). When you explain the situation to novices (as I did to my husband) they are gobsmacked. They had no idea that it was somehow a hate crime to be literate in biology.

And that's part of the problem; this hushing up colludes with the idea that people are saying something controversial. The debate stays secret and the tide of common sense never comes.

So sick of it.

Why do women have to compete with their own sex in sport? Why?

Gender is far more complicated than that. Being born intersex is an issue that I have been aware of in our family from my mother's generation. Born 1928. That child's story of their progression into adulthood is not a happy one. Between 1 in 1500 and 1 in 2000 babies are born with sufficient genital anomaly to be brought to the attention of specialists.

Intersex people (a tiny minority) have said many times they do not like or want to be dragged into this.
If some people are born with one leg, does that stop humans being classified as bipedal?
And to the poster who 'just doesn't care' - how self-centred, selfish and solipsistic. I have less than no interest in sport for the most part, but I can see it is very important to other people. It's not all about you.

I work for an organisation that is very PC and trans-friendly, and I don't have a problem with that. However ...

We're having mandatory training on some stuff to do with gender identity issues and I'm dreading it. Hardly anyone at work seems to see a problem with men identifying as female accessing women's safe spaces and women not being able to do anything about it. (Which is ironic, as we work with many women who are DV and SA victims).

I know I'm going to really struggle to keep my mouth shut when it comes to this training and will be probably end up being sent to the work equivalent of Siberia for re-education.

You really have a bee in your bonnet about this women's sport thing, Cat don't you? I remember you posting about this at length before.

Biological differences Cat.

However somebody above who stands of the same opinion as you has just called us silly.

Well it is silly, isn't it? The assumption that trans women are out to attack, or encroach on "women only" spaces. On what do you base this completely groundless assumption, apart from completely unfounded fear? Do you really assume that trans women are going to attack you in a changing room or toilet simply because they have a penis (and some may not)? They couldn't be there completely peacefully simply to try on a top or have a piss like everyone else?

The inference is there. It's clear in the mocking nasty tone.

I think you don't really want my opinion.

You have given your opinion once by agreeing with 2 other posters. The rest of your posts are you trying to make out you have been name called and treated badly. None of which are true.

What is YOUR opinion Cat?

They don't have to. I'm watching my dd play football against boys at this very moment.

However, testosterone surges give boys a huge strength advantage. You can see this in athletics when girls outperform boys until they are about 11 or 12. Not sure if you don't actually know this or you are just being difficult?

Not at all. It's my opinion, to which I'm perfectly entitled. I think women like this are silly and ridiculous and frankly give women a bad name. Like silly women who screech at spiders. Why is that so hard to understand?

I think you're flippant and hard of thinking. I doubt you'll have trouble understanding that. You're also spectacularly selfish.

The assumption that trans women are out to attack, or encroach on "women only" spaces. On what do you base this completely groundless assumption, apart from completely unfounded fear?

Your ignorance is unacceptable.

Maud. I haven't posted about this before. So I don't know who you think I am but I can assure you you're confused because that poster isn't me.

Shocking to think there just might be two posters who don't agree with the orthodoxy on here around trans

I think this thread proves there are more than one of us. But we are silenced on here for not agreeing with the prevailing view.

I don't care about trans. I don't mind sharing my space or having MTF in sports teams.

And calling them men in dresses is rude as fuck.

dolce it is far from silly.

I do not believe all transwomen are out to attack women. Same as I dont believe all men are out to attack women.
What I do believe is keeping sex segregated spaces as such will go someway to protecting women and girls from those males who will attack them.

Transwomen offend at the same rate as men. So yes, women are right to fear them in the same way we fear men.

Do women really fear men?

I don't.

Why can't men who identify as female compete against men then? cat if you don't believe in segregation in sports?

I hate this man gives birth nonsense too. The whole transgender issue has taken a mad turn IMHO. Children of three or four being trans. It's total insanity.

*Do women really fear men?

I don't.*
Oh th irony

There are biological differences between men and women. For women to have a chance of winning they need to compete with their own sex. It's really important that women have a chance at winning, this inspires other girls and women to get active. It's important that females have some space away from males if they want too. Obviously if you are a misogynist, or you don't think women and girls should have rights you will be against this. That would be something you would need to work on.

Have you ever considered the opposite viewpoint, such as the danger a trans woman may be in if forced to use the male toilets or changing rooms? Or does protecting women only spaces trump that?

I find that ignorance unacceptable.

The new laws would open up all facilities to men, thus putting mtt in danger.

Transwomen offend at the same rate as men. So yes, women are right to fear them in the same way we fear men.

Please provide official statistics to back this up, because that's utter nonsense and you know it.

www.aguycalledhelen.com/

Showandtell I think anyone should be allowed to play for whatever team they choose.

As I said. I don't care. I don't see it as an issue at all.

And why is it ironic that I don't fear men?