To be sick and tired of women's concerns being silenced?

[MerchantofVenice]

Obviously I wouldn't dream of doing a TAAT.

But is anyone else as furious as I am that every time people try to raise legitimate concerns about the legislation about self-identity and transgender people, the whole discussion is shut down?

There's this undertone of 'Oh, you can't say that!!!' when people state scientific facts.

And at the same time, there's this myth that 'MN is one of the only places you can actually discuss the transgender debate openly.' Like fuck it is.

Your average person on the street isn't intimately acquainted with the madness of the debate and will have no qualms about stating facts. You see it on the comments after those nonsense news articles ("Man gives birth"). When you explain the situation to novices (as I did to my husband) they are gobsmacked. They had no idea that it was somehow a hate crime to be literate in biology.

And that's part of the problem; this hushing up colludes with the idea that people are saying something controversial. The debate stays secret and the tide of common sense never comes.

So sick of it.

Why do women have to compete with their own sex in sport? Why?

Meet Amanda Nunes. Famous for beating Rhonda Rousey

Meet Conor Mcgregor. Due to fight Mayweather soon. MCgregor is pretty damn good though

Who would win if we put Amanda Nunes against Conor Mcgregor? You guessed it. This is why feminists are wrong when they say 'women can do anything a man can do'

mirandayardley.com/en/

It's definitely not me maud :) ask hq if you don't believe me.

This is why Catandtwodogs

mobile.wnd.com/2017/03/female-athletes-crushed-by-women-who-were-once-men/

Although hormone therapy will have an effect, athletes who 'convert' retain the height, muscle and bone mass of their birth gender.

A FtM boxer will always be smaller and lighter than his opponents and a MtF weightlifter will always be bigger and more capable than the born female competitors.

What's the point of true women competing at all when they're going to get creamed by the likes of Fallon Fox or Lauren Hubbard?

When sex testing became routine in the Olympics, large numbers of Eastern bloc competitors dropped out. If possessing Y chromasome offers no advantage, why did that happen?

It doesn't matter what levels the hormones are at now, the height, bone density and muscle mass may even diminish, but these MtF competitors will always be taller, have longer strides, be stronger and more likely to win.

The point is this; It's not bloody fair!

Have you ever considered the opposite viewpoint, such as the danger a trans woman may be in if forced to use the male toilets or changing rooms? Or does protecting women only spaces trump that?

I will and do support tanspeoples rights to safe spaces. I will fight for their right to their own spaces.
What I will not do is agree that they have the right to trampel all over females safe spaces and silence those who speak out by using threats of violence/name calling/victim shaming.

It is a good job that some people do care about women and girls, other people are so keen to throw them under the bus.

This thread is brilliant in the way it defines precisely what the OP was talking about.

Q. Why are women's concerns being silenced?
A. STFU you silly hysterical woman.

Interesting that women who use the words 'novice' and 'cool girls' in a general way are likened to arseholes and twats, and told to speak more nicely if we expect the people who hold the power to make decisions to listen.

Meghan Murphy spoke nicely and eloquently during the C16 Bill and it got her precisely nowhere.
Maria Miller recently threatened to walk out of an interview when she suspected it might be about the job she is paid to do as a politician.

dolcezza99 Please link to a single court case where a trans person is attacked ion a male toilet, or
physically attacked by a woman or radical feminist.

Maud it seriously isn't me.

I don't care. About sharing my spaces. I share my space quite happily with a MTF person on a regular basis.

And if people think they are going to get beat at a particular sport or thy aren't good enough to be picked or a team, really honestly I don't care.

I have zero interest in sport. Don't watch it. Don't play it and really really don't see what all the fuss is about.

What I will not do is agree that they have the right to trampel all over females safe spaces and silence those who speak out by using threats of violence/name calling/victim shaming

From what I have gathered on many of these threads on MN over the last year or so is that ALL mtf trans are trying to invade your changing rooms to sexually assault you. They are not. They just want normal lives. How is that so hard to understand?

gotspoiler
Why do women have to compete with their own sex in sport? Why?

You guessed it. This is why feminists are wrong when they say 'women can do anything a man can do'

Dont men have weight categories in boxing?
Women are not supposed to fight men. They fight other women of the same weight and class.

Are you very young? Are you often like this about people who don't feel the same as you about things?

And people claim that there is no infantilising going on on this thread ...

If you dont care about anything to do with women then why are you on this thread Cat?

Nbu at all. It's very, very alarming how debate and discussion being shut down is being seen/ used as some sort of solution to difficult situations and different opinions, rather than the censorship that it is.

They aren't supposed to fight men because 9 times out of 10 the men would win

I think you're flippant and hard of thinking.

Conversely, I think it's spectacularly hard of thinking to assume that you will be attacked by a trans woman simply because they have an appendage between their legs, as many people on threads like this appear to do. I still would like to know the official statistic on which this ungrounded fear is based, and why those who hold this opinion think they have the right to speak for all women. You do not speak for me. Thankfully.

It must be a terribly sad way to live, to constantly be in fear of likely completely innocent people (I'm including men in this, not just trans women) for absolutely no reason apart from your own ungrounded fears, assumptions and prejudices. That's up to you, of course, if you want to live your life in such a limited fashion, but don't assume that you speak for all women, because you certainly do not. Some of us are able to think a little more logically.

All "you"s are general, not specific or aimed at anyone in particular.

How many of you have been sexually assaulted by a MTF in a changing room or bathroom?

The only time I have been assaulted in a toilet was by a woman who was born a woman in a nightclub toilet.

My MTF friend would no more dream of assaulting anyone than I would.

"This is why feminists are wrong when they say 'women can do anything a man can do'"

Except that no feminists I know do say this. We mostly say that women are physically disadvantaged relative to men by being a lot weaker than men (one of the reasons behind the massive discrepancy in offending figures for violent assaults - 90% of prisoners serving time for violent assaults in the UK are men). What we don't believe is that these physical differences spill over into other areas of life - things like questioning whether women should be allowed to make decisions about their lives and bodily autonomy on the grounds that they are "the weaker sex".

As for the "screw the whole of women's sport because I personally don't give a shit about it" argument - well shame on you. You'd really destroy the careers and aspirations of countless women worldwide, not to mention making contact sports like rugby too dangerous to play even at the amateur level, just because you don't like women's sport? What sort of a mindset do you have to have to want to do that to your fellow women?

MTT's dont need to be in womens spaces. They can use a third gender neutral space.
Or mens spaces can be made all gender.

Those of you who dont care, use the gender neutral space. How hard is that?

Not one flying fuck could I give if women's sport men's sport all genders in between sport every sort of sport ever is erased. It's all pointless and boring.

My MTF friend would no more dream of assaulting anyone than I would

Don't bring facts and logic to a MN thread. It doesn't fit the narrative

Yep this thread is def going no where because people just throw insults at people who don't have the same beliefs and aren't interested in engaging in meaningful debate