To be sick and tired of women's concerns being silenced?

[MerchantofVenice]

Obviously I wouldn't dream of doing a TAAT.

But is anyone else as furious as I am that every time people try to raise legitimate concerns about the legislation about self-identity and transgender people, the whole discussion is shut down?

There's this undertone of 'Oh, you can't say that!!!' when people state scientific facts.

And at the same time, there's this myth that 'MN is one of the only places you can actually discuss the transgender debate openly.' Like fuck it is.

Your average person on the street isn't intimately acquainted with the madness of the debate and will have no qualms about stating facts. You see it on the comments after those nonsense news articles ("Man gives birth"). When you explain the situation to novices (as I did to my husband) they are gobsmacked. They had no idea that it was somehow a hate crime to be literate in biology.

And that's part of the problem; this hushing up colludes with the idea that people are saying something controversial. The debate stays secret and the tide of common sense never comes.

So sick of it.

[brasty]

I just get amazed at those who say they are happy with men (not even talking about Transgender), in women only spaces like changing rooms. I can never figure out if they mean it or not.

[GirlInterruptedOftenByKids]

YANBU. ..a friend linked to a Fbook page called "Assigned Male Comics" this morning which was lots of wry and cutesy cartoons about how cis people were basically just uptight and wound up about nothing. Gave me the rage. Another Penis owner telling women to calm down dear

[CosmicPineapple]

Thats the impression I got from your very aggressive posts Restless
I can see no other reason why you would call the OP arseholey and a twat

If this thread has no baring on you and you disagree with its content why bother posting on it at all?

[HellToupee]

YANBU. Just that really. I fear for my daughter and her friends in that they will have to grow up in a world where their rights are being diminished by the minute to gratify the whims (yep, I did) of a small minority wanting to encroach upon them.

So, I talk to them about it, explain to them what is going on as they have a lot of questions (they are 16).

And no, the "cool girl" approach is not helping at all. I am all for "live and let live" but not if it harms/diminishes others.

[StrangeLookingParasite]

Yes. Looks like silencing to me.

[scaryclown]

A man who wants to take on the extreme end of gendered roles for women is wanting the gender choice to be treated as though it is also a sex change?.
That's like saying women who work in engineering should henceforth be called boys. It is a bit mental. Its reinforcing the polarisation to say that doing female things and thinking female things completely emasculates you, which is very old fashioned, and I suspect class-based.
Why we are allowing US ideas, which are so much a combination of a third world nation catching up with education, with a 'current drug-company led psychology themes are the new religeon' as to be perfectly ignorance, I just don't know..

[CosmicPineapple]

Why we are allowing US ideas,

Friend has just returned from working in New York for a year. He is 30.
I asked what it was like and his reply was
"Its an amazing city full of all kinds of people. Only thing that pissed me off was knowing what pronouns to use as they seem to change daily. Was ridiculous not knowing how to address somebody depending on what they feel that day"

He went on to say being back in tbe UK was refreshing and simple.
I pointed out that may not be for long.
Hes decided to move to Poland

[Hygge]

I agree with you OP.

There are so many people who seem set on silencing women and their concerns about many issues, including on here.

I know I should stay away from the comments sections on news articles and Facebook posts because I doubt I'll ever change someone else's mind and it's often not worth the aggression that comes back, but sometimes it's still worth speaking up rather than silence myself before they try.

Mostly I end up arguing with people who are victim-blaming or "not all men-ing" about something, and I do have concerns about that legislation as well.

[YetAnotherSpartacus]

Restless what exactly is your problem? You are responding with extreme aggression to things that are not actually there

Happens in all trans threads... then we get accused of being hateful, etc. Another way of silencing ...

[SaveMeBarry]

I used the term cool girl and I don't really care if I sound a condescending twat. It's exactly the term I would use to describe the women I know who do the whole "it wouldn't bother me, what's the problem, do you think every man is a rapist, people need to get over themselves" bollox without even thinking it through. Then when you outline an everyday scenario and ask them if they'd really feel completely comfortable they acknowledge that they wouldn't. Hard of thinking, jumping on whatever current bandwagon, look how many likes I got, I'm so current cool girls

[Yewtown]

I think that political correctness is at fault here. By accommodating the wishes of a very small minority you are discomforting the larger demographic. How can this be fair. The situation opens females to possible abuse by men pretending to be trans as a way of fulfilling sexual gratification. I have no doubt that genuine trans persons have a difficult time but this does not have to mean that women should be disadvantaged further.

[QueSera]

You are so right OP. I find it so depressing. The transgender and child sex abuse cases are two very clear examples right now. Women/girls are being told 'shut up, we dont want to hear from you, you have no right to speak and state facts to try to protect yourselves'. Facts ffs!! Women/girls/children do not matter; their safety is irrelevant.

[maxthemartian]

I just don't understand why it's gone this way of saying men are actually women and vice versa. I'd be the first to fight tooth and nail to widen what it means to be a man or a woman, so that men who wish to wear make up and dresses can do so safely.

What I won't fight for or support is the loss of sex segregated spaces or the denial of biological reality.

It's almost like man, as a category, is so sacrosanct that anyone who doesn't conform must no longer be part of the "man club" and therefore is a woman.

[RestlessTraveller]

But you see SaveMeBarry I have thought it through, I've done my research and I absolutely don't have a problem with it. I also don't have a problem with the fact that you and I don't have the same views. But you have me down as a bandwagon jumping cool girl. It's the superiority that fucks me off.

[Booboobooboo84]

I think I struggle with these kinds of threads and how they descend because there is never any real discussion or compromise. For a situation that is so grey and broad there seems to be only a right answer and a wrong answer and no meaningful conversation about it. I think it's such a contentious issue that mumsnet just isn't the forum for it

[glenthebattleostrich]

We should thank restless for proving the OPs point.

I completely agree with the OP. The identitarians of the regressive left and the alt right using tactics to silence and demean anyone who doesn't 'think right'. I feel as though we are sleepwalking into 1984.

[Fauchelevent]

Helltoupee excellent username

[SongforSal]

I had to write a paper regarding gender a few months back. In a nutshell it explained how gender identity are socially constructed ideas (for those who transition) which also continuously changes over time. It was a minefield.

[IdentifiesAsASloth]

Yanbu, I'm so fed up with it. Not even just the gender identity stuff, so many women problems are shut down. It's depressing

[ShoesHaveSouls]

Yanbu OP.

'man gives birth' - yes, ludicrous. Also, 'woman arrested for rape and assault', and 'woman found guilty of murdering her father' are others... violent crime rates for trans*women are on a par to that of males - and yet are added into women's crime figures.

[RestlessTraveller]

I'm not trying to silence anybody. I'm simply saying that in every thread about this issue people who don't have an issue with the new legislations are mocked. This very thread has proved my point.

[HellToupee]

twirls Thank you Fauchelevent

[SummerflowerXx]

YANBU