to be shocked by teenage girls clothing lately

[fcek]

I have my DNiece age 14 on facebook. When she likes a friend's photo, it sometimes appears on my newsfeed (and DH's newsfeed)

DNiece is a sensible girl but like most kids she has everyone at school on her facebook.

So this photo she liked appeared on our facebook newsfeeds today and my DH is shocked and disgusted.

The friend of DNiece is 14. We've met her a few times. She looks older than she is, part due to her height and her development (she's very womanly already) and part due to her clothing being adult woman rather than a 14 year old.

But in this picture, its just awful what she is wearing. She's doing pretty much a kim kardashian bathroom selfie, with a kim kardashian style swimsuit. The ones that cover only half the boob and pushes up your tits. The kind you would see on a lads mag. It's just awful awful.

I thought to myself how can her parents let her dress like that, maybe they aren't on facebook, but low and behold her mother is and has liked and commented on that photo plus others.

Looking through DNiece's other friends (none of whom seem to have private facebook pages) there are quite a few others with very revealing photos.

There's guys with joints, alcohol, knives etc.

DNiece dresses appropriately when I see her, her pictures are all normal 14 year old pictures, but I am a bit concerned about who she is friends with but I won't say...not really my place.

Is this what teenage years are like now? I'm worried about my DD's next few year now.

I know I may get flamed for commenting on what someone wears though. Name changed so no one in RL recognises us

I'm sorry but predatory men will look at girls no matter what they are wearing my 12yo dd looks 15 she is taller than me and in the last year and a half has matured in looks alot. She is very self conscious and lives in baggy hoodies and leggings and even in that I catch men eyeing her up which is horrible. So i don't think it matters people will still look no matter what. Also girls can't win can they they we live in a society where women are told constantly they have to be appealing to men but when they dress like it they get told they are wrong. Young girls want to be grown up and so copy things that they see. Also at that age they like to shock too. I don't think wearing something like that is any different to me dying my hair black and becoming a goth it equally shocked adults and that's what I wanted.

TheSparrowhawk

I know of 3 court cases of 11 yr olds who were raped where it was argued that it was reasonable to think the girl was older as she was dressed like a 16 year old, makeup etc. Ie not clothes you'd expect on a child. Alarmingly the judge agreed'

What cases were those? And what country?

If this was a trial of actual rape, the victim's age would be irrelevant. If a trial was decided on that basis (e.g. a judge directed a jury to acquit if it found that accused believed that the victim was older) there would be a mistrial. I also expect the judge's resignation would be called for.

If it was a trial of, say, knowing indecency with a minor, then the apparent age of the victim is relevant to the defendant's belief, and no sensible judge would say otherwise. This is because if the prosecution couldn't prove that the accused knew the victim was underage he'd shouldn't be found guilty of the offence.

@toad a quick google search will show there's a lot of cases where the judge has gone easy on the rapist because the girl "looked older".

I think this thread needs to put aside the men for a moment and ask the question: why do teenage girls dress the way they do?

I would hazard that one of the biggest reasons is that other women they admire and want to be like dress like that

That in itself is nothing to do with being sexually attractive but if you look at the motivations of their role models, from Taylor Swift to Rihanna, for dressing in sexually provocative ways it is to do with money and the idea that to make money one needs to look like one can attract men easily.

I want every girl to know that she is more than just the sum of her looks. That how she dresses is no reflection on who her self worth. Style may be a fun way to self-express but it is not substance.

Men are not stupid. They're fully aware that girls dress for fashion or because they copy each other. They know at that age girls aren't fully aware of the message that other people take from their clothes.

worral
if your partner is shocked other people will too. it's not necessary

I rarely post on these threads, but I am amazed at the lost opportunity. You all had an articulate teenage girl try to post on this thread from her perspective as a teenage girl in current society. You could have learned something from listening to her perspective. Instead, having rtft only this morning or I would have stepped in earlier, I saw only dismissal of what NoLove had to say on the basis that she was a teenager. We could discuss the concerns we have all day long but unless you talk to the people dressing that way and ask them their reasoning, you can't tackle those concerns. In this context, ask a teenage girl who, even if she doesn't dress in a certain way, might have an insight into those who do.

Tell him to stop peeving at teenage girls. Yuck.

^This

What on earth are a married couple doing looking through photos of young girls they don't know?? You sound like a couple of pervs. I'd be more concerned about my husband sexualising children in your shoes OP.

I think this thread needs to put aside the men for a moment and ask the question: why do teenage girls dress the way they do?

I would hazard that one of the biggest reasons is that other women they admire and want to be like dress like that

I think this is the point as stated by IfyouseeRitaMoreno

Sad that she isn't modelling herself on women successful in other fields which are probably more accessible.

I saw only dismissal of what NoLove had to say on the basis that she was a teenager.

That's not entirely true. Lots of posters have been agreeing with her, myself included. There's a lot of love for NoLove on these threads!

Nolove can I just say that would be a good thread teenage boys/men and their sexual entitlement. I actually considered this the other day.

I was sitting in fast food chain the other day and two young men between 17-19 in a quite respectable gyms uniform were sitting in the table in front of me and the table behind them their was a girl in her school uniform maybe about 15 she was might I add as a 30yr old woman Very beautiful. She was in with her mum and younger brother. She got up to put the rubbish away and walk out, she was tall and very slim and the two guys stared as she walked away no recognition of the fact that she is wearing uniform which suggest she was possibly a minor and turned to each other and one said "id destroy that". It made me feel sick as a mother that anybodies child could be so downright awful in their views. I hope it was just male bravado (which is not ok) but tbh I notice men staring at women as if they have a right to them a lot it's very saddening and predatory.

My point obviously is girl/women could dress in binliners and still get raped and harassed. We need to focus on what's going wrong with our society that let's men think it's ok to objectify

Sad that she isn't modelling herself on women successful in other fields which are probably more accessible.

The problem is our media doesn't provide a lot of role-models for girls in that respect and when they do these admirable women are still judged on their looks and held to a standard much higher than that for men in the public eye.

Think of how we treat women in power. Apart from the everyday TV trope of the humourless ball-busting career bitch, the comments aimed at Merkel, May, Clinton etc on their "unfuckability" are awful.

Look at any female Youtuber who dares to vlog on a traditionally male area and there are always comments on their looks, be they positive or negative.

If teenage girls concentrate their focus on their physical attractiveness it's because they are being incredibly savvy about the world into which they are entering.

Teenagers like to shock but in the OP there's a comment about boys posing with knives on this FB page - I don't like that as so many boys now are being killed or seriously injured by knives.

Girls have always worn 'sexy' clothes that shock their elders.

I agree with you, Rita and also, yes, there was a lot of love for NoLove.I should have said. I just felt it got overwhelmed by dismissal and frankly, I was disappointed because I really wanted to hear what she had to say.

Mustang27 ugh

"I'd destroy that"

So rather than say that she's beautiful. Or wow. Etc. They take away her right as a human being by using that instead of her. And destroy instead of.. God I dunno.. Take out to dinner or something??

Can we blame porn culture? Like it or not visit any porn site and look at the home page and the general gist of most videos is using a woman's body as a sex toy to throw around at best, abuse at worst.

So sad. I have a baby daughter and I hope upon hope things turn around before she gets to this age

I must say as a teenage girl I would love it if boys and men never saw me sexually. Sounds like Utopia.

No, it sounds like a parallel universe where the species reproduces itself differently. It's at this point that I always end up stating "I'm not a feminist" (I think NoLove had an interesting thread about this a few weeks ago) because I think these kind of feminist arguments simply ignore or refuse to accept the nature of male sexuality.

Men are biologically driven to want to have sex with women. Or most are - obviously some are gay or asexual. But most are - that's how the species has reproduced itself over time. And social structures and codes, most obviously marriage, have been put in place to (for want of a better word) civilise that. This has been true since time immemorial. Someone was saying upthread that breasts and legs aren't sexual; surely men are innately programmed to find them so?

Now - none of this excuses men's actions. What they do. For no man has the right to harass or attack any woman, whatever she is wearing. But it is a fact of life that men will see women sexually - and if a woman is wearing clothes which reveal a lot of her body and her secondary sexual characteristics, then probably the first thing that a lot of men will see as they see her is that she is a sexual being. Should they be civilised and considerate enough to suppress that reaction? Absolutely we should expect that. But to say "they shouldn't think that" is a bit like saying someone shouldn't be hungry. They can control their hunger until the next meal, or not to steal food, but they can't control that they feel that way.

The standard MN line is "choices aren't made in a vacuum" and nowhere does it apply more than to clothes and make up. Yes, you may think that you only dress to please yourself, but it's not a huge leap to see that, even if only subconsciously, you are making a statement by what you wear. Whatever it is. From burqa to bikini. Because you have chosen it. So if your choice of clothes is a crop top and short shorts, you have chosen to reveal a lot of your body for others to see. This will elicit a sexual response from men. Doesn't mean you shouldn't do it. Doesn't mean you should be harrassed or attacked. But you probably should know that that is the response you are likely to elicit so that you can make an informed choice.

So, if you don't want men to see you sexually, the obvious thing to do is to choose clothes that cover your body. Why should you? There is no moral should; it's just a pragmatic answer. (Similarly, you can answer the question "Should they see you sexually?" in a similar vein - they do because of biology, not some moral weakness. The moral point comes in regard to their actions towards you.) In the same way that, if you want to fade into the crowd at Bank station of a Monday morning you'd wear a suit and not a clown outfit with stilts. You have every right to wear the costume, but you should know that that is not the way to avoid notice.

Turning into a ramble, so I'll shut up. Feel free to disagree as you wish, but I will note that there's a little too much of "if you don't agree with me, then you're a misogynist" on this thread....

Nobody has commented on the post with the African tribe women with their breasts exposed.

If a white teenager dressed like the tribal women would there be so many posts commenting on how attractive the teen was trying to look to men? Yes definitely.

Certain clothing and even certain ethnicities are bring sexualised. Once again women are being treated like commodities. Women with dark skin dont hold the same worth as the "beautiful" white woman and it's insidious.

The girl in the restaurant was black I didn't mention it because I honestly didn't think the colour of your skin comes into play.

Were the two men black too?

User I do think porn culture can take some of the blame yeah.

I'm a mother to a wee boy it breaks my heart that they might at some point say this sort of crap. I will do my utmost as a mother to educate my children that people are worth more than your sexual use.

No they weren't, why does that matter?

IfyouseeRitaMoreno

Name some cases then.

It matters because people are usually attracted to people who are of the same ethnicity. Was her mother white?

Oh and I accept that you could be lying. We are on the internet afterall.

No they were most definitely a black family. Haha thanks but I have better things to do than lie on the interwebs.

I'm still confused as I see daily women being raped, harrassed and murdered it does not seem to be one race or culture to me. Sorry I'm not a teenage guy do I don't know. I find lots of people from all walks of life attractive guess that makes me a weirdo.

I have a 14 year old daughter and am amazed at some of the clothes girls of the same age are allowed to wear. I am no prude but I am her parent and I do not allow her to go out with her tits or her arse hanging out - she is 14 !!! When she gets to 18 it will be different as she will be an adult and will make her own, hopefully appropriate choices !
Some of the duck face provocative poses she has shown me of girls her age on social media amaze me - why do the parents allow it ?? Does they not realise how ridiculous they look ? let them enjoy being 14 !! My daughter is popular and fashionable and I enjoy her looking nice, wearing make up, having legs waxed, eyebrows done etc - they can do all this and still dress appropriately for their age !