to be shocked by teenage girls clothing lately

[fcek]

I have my DNiece age 14 on facebook. When she likes a friend's photo, it sometimes appears on my newsfeed (and DH's newsfeed)

DNiece is a sensible girl but like most kids she has everyone at school on her facebook.

So this photo she liked appeared on our facebook newsfeeds today and my DH is shocked and disgusted.

The friend of DNiece is 14. We've met her a few times. She looks older than she is, part due to her height and her development (she's very womanly already) and part due to her clothing being adult woman rather than a 14 year old.

But in this picture, its just awful what she is wearing. She's doing pretty much a kim kardashian bathroom selfie, with a kim kardashian style swimsuit. The ones that cover only half the boob and pushes up your tits. The kind you would see on a lads mag. It's just awful awful.

I thought to myself how can her parents let her dress like that, maybe they aren't on facebook, but low and behold her mother is and has liked and commented on that photo plus others.

Looking through DNiece's other friends (none of whom seem to have private facebook pages) there are quite a few others with very revealing photos.

There's guys with joints, alcohol, knives etc.

DNiece dresses appropriately when I see her, her pictures are all normal 14 year old pictures, but I am a bit concerned about who she is friends with but I won't say...not really my place.

Is this what teenage years are like now? I'm worried about my DD's next few year now.

I know I may get flamed for commenting on what someone wears though. Name changed so no one in RL recognises us

Bikes which are not locked up are more likely to get stolen.

There's no evidence clothing changes your likelihood of being raped.

We should definitely warn women and girls that many men are dangerous, and that there are warning signs that can sometimes be picked up about dangerous men, and the methods many men use to abduct or attack women and girls.

We should definitely warn women and girls that many men are dangerous, and that there are warning signs that can sometimes be picked up about dangerous men, and the methods many men use to abduct or attack women and girls.

I agree with this, but I also think the point of the OP has been forgotten. I don't think the concern of the OP was that the 14 year old girl was inviting men to rape her, but was that the clothes she was wearing and the image she was projecting were not appropriate for a child.

And she's not struggling. It's been pointed out by feminists for decades that women's behaviour shouldn't be compared to locking up or hiding inanimate objects.

noloveofmine no need for sarcasm. I shared my own personal experience. I do believe these guys misunderstood my intentions and went too far because of the way I was dressing.

Perper I'm The first one to say we should wear whatever we want without being blamed. But I also think that in order to do that, we need to change the views of those who don't see it that way and see it as an invitation for sex. That needs to happen first, before we can all go "I wear what I like, my body my choice". Because although I'd love to be able to do that, unless I have the guarantee that I won't come across one of those men who think that because you wear a mini skirt you are inviting a look or hand under it, I won't do it because I won't feel safe. So I might wear something like that for a girly house party, but wouldn't for walking/drinking around the city centre clubbing. The clothes are not at fault, the sick disrespectful guys are, but because of that, the less attention I bring to myself in an environment where I might encounter some of those b*rds, the better for myself. I know it's a reduced group, it's not every man, but if it were just one guy: I wouldn't dress like that if I were to walk alone at night by his house. So when the number of dicks are higher in a big city, why should one take chances? If you are a big group of girls, you don't separate and you deal well with verbal comments, by all means go ahead, but then it all depends where you are and with whom, which is what I said in my first post. Girls that age shouldn't be encouraged to dress like that by their mums without serious talks about safety, privacy settings, meeting in safe areas, not sending pictures online and saying no effectively, among other things.

Someone who is looking to sexualise someone or something will do it whether that person is wearing jeans or a mini skirt. A pervert is a pervert and the only thing that causes a pervert is their own perverted thoughts. Sanctioning girls from wearing what they want to because bad people exist is like locking yourself in your home because there are murderers out there. You cannot live in fear, or force anyone else to.

It's been pointed out by feminists for decades that women's behaviour shouldn't be compared to locking up or hiding inanimate objects

Ugh, I really don't think this is the place to have this discussion, but I'll bite:

1. I am a staunch feminist.
2. Locking up a bike is a behaviour. Taking precautions for personal safety is a behaviour. They are behaviours that minimise the risk of becoming a victim of crime.
3. For what it's worth, no I don't think clothing by itself particularly increases the chances of rape- generally other behaviours that may or quite possibly may not be associated with the clothing can increase those chances though (for example drinking, unsafe choices of route home, social circles etc.)
4. Not minimising one's chances of being raped is not the same as inviting rape. No one invites rape or asks to be raped, just like no one asks to be the victim of any other crime.

Back to the OP now?

perper I'm sorry but there is nothing you can do to avoid rape just like any other crime, yes you can lock your door to avoid burgalers but they would just break in anyway.

And yes in a way you are correct, walking with others and being safe is always good however when you start to change your lifestyle (ie your clothing style) because of a risk of something that hasn't happened yet, you are living in fear.

Someone who is looking to sexualise someone or something will do it whether that person is wearing jeans or a mini skirt. A pervert is a pervert and the only thing that causes a pervert is their own perverted thoughts. Sanctioning girls from wearing what they want to because bad people exist is like locking yourself in your home because there are murderers out there. You cannot live in fear, or force anyone else to.

As I have said before, I am not comfortable with anyone sexualising a child, and that includes the child themself. Children choosing to wear sexualised clothing happens for a reason- the child wants to portray themself as sexy, for various reasons largely based upon the society we live in. I am not ok with them feeling the need to do that. The point of not wanting children to pose in provocative photos is not only to protect them from perverts (though that is another concern).

If you're a feminist, you know that argument and you know that no love wasn't struggling when she made it.

What do you want to say about the op?

I'm sorry but there is nothing you can do to avoid rape just like any other crime, yes you can lock your door to avoid burgalers but they would just break in anyway.

?! Um, this is nonsense. A unlocked car with the keys in is more likely to be stolen than a locked car. A house with open windows is more likely to be burgled than a fully locked up house. A woman walking down a dark path alone is more likely to be assaulted than if she took a well-lit route with a group of friends. A woman getting in an unmarked taxi is more likely to be assaulted than one taking a pre-booked licensed cab. There are plenty of precautions that we can take to prevent crime.

I am not saying that never wearing mini-skirts is one of them- but I do know that I get leered at and groped more often when I am dressed up in 'sexy' clothes. Yes, it can also happen in my baggiest jeans and jumpers, but less.

As I have said though, it's somewhat off-topic from the OP.

perper

Children are sexualised in whatever clothes they wear, pedophiles in particular sexualise children because they look innocent and like a child, if pedophiles liked children looking adult that would defeat the point of pedophilia.

In the same way, sexual violence happens regardless of outfit choice and it is wrong to punish a potential victim over an abuser by saying "do not wear that you may be assaulted".

And as for children wanting to look sexy, I believe this has always been the case, beautiful, cute whatever. People do not just start to want to keep a good appearance when they turn 18, teenagers are just not fully matured adults so it's completely logical for them to express fashion or style in a way, based on their idols. If someone takes this inappropriately they are the problem, not the child.

If you're a feminist, you know that argument and you know that no love wasn't struggling when she made it.

I do know that she was arguing reductio ad absurdum and wilfully missing the point.

However, the point of the OP's post was about age-inappropriate clothes. This is no longer on topic.

Britain
And yes in a way you are correct, walking with others and being safe is always good however when you start to change your lifestyle (ie your clothing style) because of a risk of something that hasn't happened yet, you are living in fear.

But we do. A few decades ago, many people didn't close their front doors when they were inside. CCTV and motion camera devices have increased dramatically not just because of the reduction in cost, but because of the need to feel safer. Young kids play less now on the street and pass more time indoors or in contained supervised spaces. Car seats and seat belts have become mandatory. The police advise to keep gadgets and valuables away from car windows. Gadget sellers recommend to put tracking software in your phones and tablets. Parents are not allowed to take pictures or videos of the school functions... We are changing the lifestyle in the name of safety and protection.

perper

An unlocked car with a key in it is still not an invitiation for theft, just like someone wearing more revealing clothing than you are personally comfortable with is not an invitation for rape or assault.

In most cases taking precautions will not matter, because 3 out of 4 rapes are committed by someone who knew the victim. In Saudi Arabia a dress code is enforced, where there is no skin on show whatsoever. Rape is prominent in Saudi Arabia. Most rape does not happen because the victim was on a night out wearing clothing considered sexy and this has been confirmed many times but yet people still hold onto this idea that dressing in a "provacative" way is the problem. Rapists are the problem.

Jedimum1

There is literally no parallel between an object and a person.

Perper, if you don't want to talk about what does or does not cause rape, why don't you change the topic of conversation by writing a post about something else?

An unlocked car with a key in it is still not an invitiation for theft, just like someone wearing more revealing clothing than you are personally comfortable with is not an invitation for rape or assault.

This is exactly my point but you don't seem to realise it

No one should be accused of inviting criminals- but we don't say 'actually we shouldn't tell people to lock their cars, because car thieves are the problem". Of course the criminals are the problem, and unfortunately they will always exist in every society. We can do our best to minimise that through education, rehabilitation etc, but it would be bloody stupid to say that even though crimes happen, we're not going to advise people of how to protect themselves because they shouldn't have to?!

It would be brilliant if society advised women how to protect themselves from rape, but it's hard to when people keep banging on about what clothes they are wearing instead.

Do you want to bring up a point about the OP or not?

Do you want to bring up a point about the OP or not?

I have, multiple times. Not sure why you're being so snippy- if you'd like to discuss the original point of the thread I'm happy to.

Perper

Your points are very sporadic and you spend more time telling other people to get back to the OP so no I'm not realising it.

That's a lovely thought or would be if dressing like mormons actually protected anyone but as aforementioned 3 out of 4 crimes are committed by someone the victim already knows, only 10 percent of rapes are by a stranger.

So with this new found information should we stop being friends with males we know completely because they are more likely to rape us than a stranger? Should we make sure our daughters talk to no male close to the family ever because rape is most likely to happen to children by someone close to the family? Because those would be the real ways to "protect ourselves" since most rape happens this way.

Britain, certain clothes and items have immediate sexual connotations. Fishnet stockings / bodysuit, underwear with "access holes", pvc mini skirts, lace see-through bras, etc. Other clothes like uniforms and secretary outfits can be sexual but they are not by definition. I wouldn't be happy with my daughter wearing clothes that have sexual connotations if she were going for example to an interview. The picture of that 14yo was liked and shared to at least over 100 people. The outfit and the posing had sexual connotations. I agree it was wrong. She's sexualising herself and allowing strangers into her life by not having a private profile. Her mum was encouraging these pictures. I think yes, somebody should tell this girl that she's putting herself into a vulnerable position by a) having her profile public and b) putting sexy pictures that can be shared and downloaded by strangers and potential pervs in her nearby circles

I'm not intending to be snippy. I just don't know what point you want to discuss from the OP.

It would be helpful if you could explain what you think the issue is, because I think I'm just going to misinterpret what you mean by sexual and sexualise, and I'd like to avoid that.

Fishnet tights are just a current fashion among teenagers though. They're not formal office attire, so shouldn't be worn to an interview.

But they're not sexual if worn with an otherwise ordinary outfit.

Jedimum1

Clothes are pieces of fabric we wear and nothing else, your own opinion of them is yours just like some people like jeans and tshirts and some people like skirts and dresses. Surprisingly children are people too, who want to express their own fashion aswell. The ones who dress just to get some sort of attention from males are a minority, the rest wearing outfits you may consider too mature is just them expressing their sense of fashion.

If private areas are covered then why is it considered revealing to you? Heaven forbid girls have arms and legs. There is nothing remotely sexual about skin. You are choosing to view a child sexually rather than seeing what it is, a young girl having fun. Older generations did the same, just without social media. If social media is the part that bothers you then why? More than a 100 strangers see young girls wearing bikinis at beaches etc, I don't see your point?

What do you suggest she wears?

Worn like this. I mean, I think it looks unattractive in aesthetic sense, but it is just a fashion trend. In two years, they will have all stopped wearing them.