AIBU to suggest exP stays overnight to support DD with SEN and MH problems?

[FeistyColl]

DD (12) has an ASD and extreme anxiety. She has been unable to attend school for over 3 years and is now funded to be educated at home. She has extreme separation anxiety and following a traumatic event 2 years ago has not been able to cope with me leaving the house without her. I have had to give up work and spend every day with her. I split from ExP before she was born but he has been involved in her life from the start, albeit largely on a visitor basis.
ExP and his dw live about 45 mins drive away from us. They have been together since DD was a baby and they have been married 8 years - no dc. I live alone with DD.

ExP visits DD here twice a week (6.30- 9 pm) and comes every other Saturday until about 10 pm. DD hates it when he goes, and often gets very distressed. She anticipates him leaving and this spoils her time with him. I have asked if he could stay later so that he could settle her to sleep, but he says he doesn’t feel safe driving that distance home on his motorbike late at night (he has a number of quite serious health issues). DD’s MH has deteriorated yet further - she self-harms and has talked about wishing she was dead. I suggested to exP that during the school holidays he could stay over on a couple of occasions (he teaches so is free) in order to give DD a full day without the stress of him leaving. He has done this once and it was a real success. DD was able to relax and they were able to go out and enjoy the day with no time pressure knowing her Dad wasn’t going anywhere. She coped absolutely fine when he left the next day.

But, I have received an email from exP’s dw which includes “Finally, I find it unreasonable for you to expect (exP) to spend whole nights at your house, whatever the circumstances.”

So before I reply, I need to know, AIBU to suggest he stays over for DD’s sake?

Hi op I've read through the thread and the question that stands out to me is, What about you?
When do you get a rest? When do you get a life outside the house?
It's obviously not your dd's fault that things have turned out this way and I can only imagine how brave and wonderful she is by coping every day with her mental health problems.

But then I was thinking you know what about you? You matter as well and you clearly give so much of your self when do you get to be you?
What about respite care? Would you consider residential care? And I'm not saying this lightly, like your dd is. A problem to get rid of. She certainly isn't. But I think you maybe need to look after your self more to look after dd. Which I think means her dad steps up more .I think your doing an ahmazing job and if my dd struggled like your dd I'd do the same as you.

Doesn't sound like OP has much of a chance to go away for a few weeks with anyone or host a BBQ!

Not at the moment, but by including DW in the arrangements everyone can move towards the OP having this option in the future.

I hope it is only in MNland where new partners are vilified.

Baba - to say I'm vilifying the 'new partner' is really not true. She's the wife of 8 years, and she thinks it totally unreasonable that her husband spend the night with his extremely unwell daughter once a fortnight.

I am the new partner in my own situation, and I would absolutely hate myself if I ever let my own jealousy go in front of the needs of an ill child. I have my stepchildren (not sn) 50% of the time, and I can assure you that's more of a 'disruption' (as it seems this woman would view it) than a fortnightly sleepover.

Sorry *Babsganoush not Baba (autocorrect)

Hi op

Firstly can I say I think you are a fantastic mum on so many levels, not that many women would want their ex to stay overnight but you are putting your DD's needs first as ever

We have a very similar DD, educated from home due to multiple ASD related problems also state funded

The one thing you haven't mentioned is socialisation?

Our DD although educated at home has lots of online school friends who provide her with emotional support and socialisation

I wondered if this was happening for your DD as we notice during the holidays when less are around her coping abilities are less

We also found 12-13 was a very bad stage, now at almost 15 DD has become more settled and confident

You never mention your own support network? We have no extended family and it's damn hard work but I can't imagine how tough it must be without a partner to give you a hug on bad days

I've found the other mums here on the special needs board wonderfully supportive on bad days

From my view and you've been very diplomatic I think ex's wife is very selfish, having your DH away overnight once a fortnight is nothing and has far less impact than even having your DD stay over. It appears very selfish and says everything I would need to know about her

But you are a hero

BabsGanoush I absolutely do want to include ex's dw - she has in no way been 'excluded'. And she is not a 'new' partner - she has been with exP for over 12 years. We have always followed the usual path, i.e. that exP and I communicate directly, exP and his wife communicate directly and exP comes back and we continue until a decision is agreed. This is the first time that dw has circumvented this and sent me an email directly. I have not responded and have explained here that I didn't want to give a knee-jerk response.

This thread has been really helpful to help me. I have the biggest incentive to make this situation work and not alienate dw - it is absolutely NOT helpful for me or DD for this to cause a major rift. But neither is it helpful for dw's feelings to simply override what might be in DD's best interests.

I was very explicit in my AIBU and I have got lots of very helpful responses to that specific question.

Clearly this fits into a much bigger picture and I truly do not want to stray into that arena. I may come across as the ex from hell or she may come across as the wicked step mother - but we all know the reality is neither!

OP I don't think your request is unreasonable.

I'm just wondering if you want your ex to stay over to give you some respite i.e. Does your dd not sleep well etc? Or whether you want him to stay to avoid your dd getting anxious about him leaving?

If it's respite, then surely your ex taking your dd out for a few hours is a better option?

OP I understand your willing to try new things but what I'm seeing is an escalation. What you're suggesting won't work long term. All it will turn into is 2 people trapped in the mental health problems of a child. What happens when the anxiety of something happening when out of sight is then attached to her dad. Can you see him doing what you're doing?

Have you thought about residential treatment? It may be better to try for that while she's still young rather than have to navigate adult services. Those are a whole different ball game.

OP I admire your patience on this thread. You've been very polite to a number of people who not only can't be arsed to even read the OP properly, but clearly haven't read any of your replies either.

I absolutely do want to include ex's dw - she has in no way been 'excluded'. And she is not a 'new' partner - she has been with exP for over 12 years. We have always followed the usual path, i.e. that exP and I communicate directly, exP and his wife communicate directly and exP comes back and we continue until a decision is agreed. This is the first time that dw has circumvented this and sent me an email directly.
But maybe she does feel excluded BECAUSE you won't have contact with her directly? She has no way to get to know you on your own as a person & no real way to interact easily with DD because, obviously, most of Ex's contact with DD is at yours with you there. It's not like the usual stepmum situation where she'd get to know DD from regular visits at hers. If she got the opportunity to talk to you on her own, face to face, she'd probably come away with a better understanding of you, DD, and the problems you face, and would likely see that you're not a threat at all but someone in need of help. She might even have ideas on how to handle the situation that you & Ex haven't thought of because you're too close to the situation.
Long & short of it - YANBU to suggest overnight stays but she's NBU either. Just talk to her. One conversation for the sake of your daughter?

Well I have to say I wouldn't like my partner sleeping at his exes. Insecure of me maybe. But yes I'd feel it inappropriate. I understand why you asked but I wouldn't be happy with it.

Nitnjust insecure but nasty too. To the poor dd, to the poor ex who must be fucking exhausted by dealing with the fall out while he swans off

Thanks for all the concern about my wellbeing!

DD and I used to have a fairly small but brilliant network of support. DD had 2 particular friends from first primary school and their mums became extremely good friends to us both. We still rely heavily on one, but the other family moved out of the area.

We spent a great deal of time with one of my closest friends and her DD - the girls regarded themselves as cousins. We holidayed together and they would regularly come for sleepovers etc. Tragically this friend died 3 1/2 years ago and her death is something DD is still coming to terms with.

Another very dear friend of mine would regularly come and stay in school holidays (and always when ex was away) . She was diagnosed with terminal brain cancer in March this year. Again. absolutely devastating for us both. She lives 150 miles away and we have only been able to make the trip once to see her.

My parents have been a massive part of DD's life but are elderly. My mum has alzheimer's and we have witnessed her disappearing in front of us. In the last year she has deteriorated to the point where DD says she's no longer Granny. So, a sort of 'living bereavement'.

ExP's mother has also been diagnosed with Alzheimer's and his sister is recovering from breast cancer ....

So, it is obvious that life events have added massively to DD's problems and impacted heavily on me.

I still have support at a distance and do use FB groups and online support which is brilliant. I'm also still in communication with other friends and do get to see them here if DD can cope.

I have focused my attention on projects in the house and working on the garden which definitely helps and gives me pleasure.

And the budget we have provides for tutors to come here. I have a fantastic relationship with DD's main tutor and she has been an absolute godsend!

Can I ask what your ds's therapists have said about your ex staying over to avoid her anxiety?

Ds is and has been in therapy for several years and his therapist would see it as typically reinforcing anxiety and the cycle. (I appreciate therapists are not always right!)

Nikephorus DD has spent many days at ex's over the last 12 years . In the past DD did stay overnight on occasions and has been camping with her dad at least 4 times . His dw went on 2 of these camping trips but not the others, I don't know why. DW has come here for every birthday celebration since dd was 3 and other social ocacsions. I have been to their house with DD - in the past to drop off / pick up as well as invited occasions.

The last time I saw his dw was in June and we were perfectly civil to each other. DW is fully aware of all of DD's difficulties.

Where did I say I "won't have contact with her directly" ? I said we had a system in place that as far as I was aware was satisfactory, and commonplace. She has decided to unilaterally change that and I am trying to find the best way to respond.

OP what happens if while you're doing the long road of finding the perfect therapy you die suddenly or get really ill. Do you think this approach will have provided her with the tools to cope?

Can you not reply and state she is more than welcome to come. She may see that your not doing this for other reasons apart from for your DD?

I can totally see how and why this idea of ex staying overnight works and is important. However, what mumsnet has taught me is that women do not trust their male partners to be friends with other women. Therefore staying overnight at an ex partners home (even to help the mental health of child) can be seen as a "red flag" and makes him worthy of a "LTB".

Which is all mince of course but some women really have trust issues.

Can they both come to stay? Also I would look to see if she can spend more time away with him to give you respite?

Shedmicehugh It's so hard to explain. The issue is really that DD feels that he doesn't stay long enough to be a proper dad. She understands fully that he has to go at 9 pm on a week night - doesn't like it and worries that he will get home safely etc. - but understands and copes. She does not have the same extreme anxiety around his safety as she does around me.She even accepts it at a weekend that he still has to get up to jobs etc. But she wants him to do the bedtime stuff that most parents do sometimes in the holidays. She has zero self esteem and feels that she is in some way not important enough or he would stay as long as necessary. She would stay at his if she could but she can't.

So what we have at the moment is a routine that reinforces the idea that I am the only person she can rely on. Quite literally at the end of the day there is only ever me.

The aim of the plan is to rebuild her reliance on her dad and to see him as a more equal source of support, starting here. Ultimately of course we hope this would lead on to her being able to stay away with him and his dw but that is a longer term goal.

At the same time we are starting a new therapy focused on dealing with the trauma of bereavement and other extremely difficult life events that DD has experienced in addition to her ASD. There is one particular event that triggered her belief that I must not be allowed out alone and her therapist hopes to be able to tackle that specifically.

The 3rd strand is building her self-esteem and general well-being through relationships and positive experiences. This is where I'd hoped dw would play a part and be as involved as she wants to be.

dw is aware of all of this but I now realise is not on board. I am working out how best to approach things to get her on board.

gamerchick if you can point me in the direction of a short road to give her the tools to cope I would be the happiest woman alive.

You have the tools at your disposal. You're surrounded by child mental health services. Unless you're minted, I would worry about the future. Adult mental health services are a lot less forgiving.

What you're suggesting won't work. Your daughter sees her comfy bubble and now wants to add more adults to that comfy bubble where she's shielded from life. I'm suspecting the exs wife sees something different to you and has taken a huge step back. You can't sustain this world you've created on your own. This is what tells me it doesnt work.

I understand your reasoning, I have one with asd and I care for a seriously mentally unwell young adult who's in an institution. With asd it's sometimes easier to just go with what appears to work. Doesn't mean it's the right thing.

I do feel for you and you know your daughter. Just give yourself a time limit or a sign a totally different approach is needed. You can't be there for her 24/7 for ever. It's not good for her and neither can you pin your hopes on your ex making himself indispensable to her either as it'll be you who cops the flack if he's unable to give as much as your daughter wants him to.

Im my experience, lots on the spectrum have 'controlling' behaviour. By controlling I don't necessarily mean to be manipulating on purpose. I mean more anxiety driven, by not being in control of the situation and the need to control it to avoid the anxiety.

By removing causes of anxiety totally, you are reinforcing.

I previously thought you wanted him to stay to avoid your dd getting anxious about him leaving.

Ds often thinks it's me and him against the world (it has been too!) Worries about something happening to me etc. In therapy they have been working on and I have been reinforcing at home a) I am an adult b) I am strong and can take care of myself and c) he is not helpless

Is him staying over actually part of the therapy or an idea of yours?

Also is this therapy from CAMHS? Therapy doesn't usually teach you to be reliant on anyone, it's usually more self help strategies.

Thanks for replying gamerchick I appreciate that it can be very difficult to get a clear perspective when one is immersed in a situation, and I will take time to reflect on what you have said.

But equally it is impossible to get a full understanding of a situation from posts on a forum. You make assertions about the cause of DD's difficulties and potential outcomes with an extraordinary certainty that none of the many professionals have ever shown, despite their vastly greater knowledge of our particular situation.

Its not a matter for you and her to discuss. It is a matter for him as the father of a child in need to decide whether to stand up to her. I wouldn't engage with it at all, and would tell her to speak to him about it if she has any concerns.

Shedmicehugh what you have described with your ds is very familiar and your approach is similar to the way we have tackled much of DD's anxieties. In this way she has made great progress. She can be incredibly independent, e.g. is able to get on a bus into town by herself, can cycle to her friend's house and then cycle to MacDonald's etc. She has built up to these things a stage at a time etc

The issue around my safety is totally different. DD identifies that it is different and says it is not logical but the feelings and belief are real. That's why I described it as more like an OCD ritual, rather than simply part of her ASD anxiety. It was also triggered by a specific event.

We are starting therapy - under the guidance of CAMHS psychiatrist but provided by an independent, fully accredited therapist.

I am going to step away from this thread now, as it's gone way beyond my initial AIBU. I can't begin to debate the ins and outs of therapy and treatment . I have a file 6 inches deep with paperwork and years of complex history which can't be simplified into a few paragraphs on a discussion forum.

But thanks for all the input and opinions. It has been really helpful.