To not discipline DS for shouting at an adult

[riverotter]

DS(10) is normally quiet and quite polite. However, he can explode a bit if pushed.

He was at a friend's house last night and I picked him up at just after 8. The mum seemed a bit quiet and this morning she sent a text asking if we could talk so I called her.

Her version is that DS shouted and slammed a glass down on the table and it made everybody feel very uncomfortable. Obviously I asked what brought it on and she said it was because her mum, so his friend's grandma, had offered DS a sandwich!

So I spoke to DS. He started crying and said he did but he didn't really like any of them so kept saying no thank you, no thank you. But apparently the gran kept saying go on, have one, they are nice, I've been making these all afternoon. He said she was waving one in his face when he shouted 'no, I said no.' (I actually taught him that phrase a while back.)

So - discipline or not? I'm not sure how to deal with this. I hate rudeness but I hate people who won't say no for an answer as well.

Crikey no that's not okay. So if a child smaller than him pesters him to play is allowed to give the child a good shove because he said no? An old lady who persistently offers a sandwich doesn't deserve to be shouted at nor have a glass slammed. And when he has a girlfriend must she never question him when he says no? Or will she be met with a violent outburst? You've set an awful precedent with your son. No way I'd tolerate that kind of outburst from a 10 year old.

So if a child smaller than him pesters him to play is allowed to give the child a good shove because he said no?

Also not remote analogous. Is this bad analogy day on MN?

Long story short: aggression is NOT an acceptable way to respond when someone annoys you.
He may only be 10 but he needs to start learning this vital life lesson now.

To suggest otherwise is wrong.

I totally agree with everything aeroflotgirl said. She put it exactly how I would have liked to put it myself. Child shouldn't have slammed the glass and he realised that but he felt he was cornered and put in a stressful position, frustrated. He's only 10 and didn't know how else to get listener to. I sympathise with him. And no need to punish him.
This is a good opportunity for the assertiveness practices for the child and he is already aware of his rights. Needs fine-tuning which would come with age and maturity.

Totally alfa, if people were waving food in my face and kept offering despite me repeatidly saying no thank you, they would get a very firm response from me, as that is rude! Yes you would not do that to another adult, why is it ok for a child. His boundaries were pushed and he reacted not ideally. Yes I would get him to apologise to the family, but I also I would support him too, and discuss the situation. Tell him that its ok to raise his voice if he is not being listened to, but no glass slamming.

One of the reasons why so many parents seem to have so much trouble with their teenagers is because they are giving them too many messages about how they are equal to adults and so can be rude to adults. It is really easy to teach children the difference between a minor situation in which they need to just suck,it up and be polite, and a more serious issue of potential abuse. It is not doing these children any good at all to give them the message that they don't need to show respect to people who are older then them and/or in authority. How the hell are they going to manage in school or in a job?

He was rude. However I think the fault lays with the OP for not equipping him properly to deal with this situation.

My dad was very big on teaching me how to behave in every social situation. Hold my knife and fork correctly, pause after each mouthful. Don't speak with your mouth full, no elbows on the table, etc. I was quite a fussy child food wise with things like sandwiches- I don't like tomato, pickle, ham, corned beef or fish paste. Ruled out 90% of buffet sandwiches in the 1970s and 80s!

So my dad would say take the one you can eat a bit of (ie cheese and tomato) or the one that has the least filling, and nibble a bit of it - start with the crust which usually has no filling.

Host isn't offended, no one makes a scene and at worst you've eaten a bit of dry crust.

You need to equip him to deal with different situations in different ways. Is he going to behave like this at school if a teacher asks him to choose something he doesn't want to do?

Your response is appropriate in a situation where he is at risk. There is no risk in declining a sandwich.

Btw I wasn't making an analogy I was writing about the importance of dealing with context when teaching children. As I mentioned in my post.

So as a secondary teacher if I repeatedly ask a child to get on with their work, which they don't want to do, it is reasonable for the child to shout at me and slam something on the desk?

If you can't see the absolute false equivalency in your comparison you have absolutely no business teaching anyone anything.

Children need to be allowed their own boundaries. It is a very dangerous thing to teach them that they must do what adults tell them to do, that they are not allowed to stick to NO, that they are rude if they hold firm to that NO.
Very dangerous indeed. Yes, this is just about food, but if you punish a child for standing up to an adult who is trying to force on them something they do not want, that is a dangerous message.

So if a child smaller than him pesters him to play is allowed to give the child a good shove because he said no?

He didn't shove anyone, he didn't put his hands on anyone.

Very bad analogies on Mumsnet today.

Granny needs to learn (long overdue) to take 'no' for an answer.
Youngster needs to learn to bite his tongue.

Bad parenting too.

But velvet then you are saying he should have eaten it. But he didn't want it.

Anyway points taken. I'm least happy about the glass slamming. But I think he was just unsure and stressed.

it would probably just be better all round to teach him to repeat a much politer version and a method to remove himself politely as well.

Do you have any examples?

He was fine, apart from the glass slamming. That persistent behaviour would have bloody annoyed me, and it used to as a child. Once I was sick when a relative kept forcing me to have food when I did not want it.

Is the other family Indian? It's a very indian thing to do for the granny to push food towards guests more time than is necessary! (I am Indian)

I'm going against grain here and saying I don't blame your DS OP!!!

That was quite rude of him. But a bit silly of the woman who kept insisting he ate a sandwich even if he declined politely at first. I don't think you should come down too hard in this instance. But point out that yes she should have taken no for an answer but he was still wrong to shout and bang his glass down.

I cannot believe some of the responses on this.
It was a rude and uncalled for response, it was a sandwich not any of the other bizarre things people have substituted on here (drugs, crime, taking his clothes off)
It's quite common for people to offer things a few times as they may assume the other person is being reserved or shy, especially a child.
How is a child ever supposed to learn the nuances of communication if you just approve this sort of crap.
FGS never take him round the elderly and confused, he'll be a delight!

I remember as clear as day being 9 or 10 and at my mother's friends house. This woman was formidable, a German frau she even used to wear the traditional dress. The house was incredibly dark with the curtains closed.

She'd made something she called cheesecake, it had shredded coconut in icing on the top, anyway, it was odd so I had a good look at the plate on the table. I had not been invited for food, I had no idea she had cake (I didn't even recognise it as a cake), nor that I was expected to have cake. We were alone waiting for my mum and she stared at me, angrily saying "well I KNOW you want one, go on then, I suppose I'll have to give you one" so I began saying no thank you, over and over again. In the end she snapped "TAKE ONE!!". So really worried by this time, I did.

She watched me bite into this alien item, it was awful (to me). I didn't say anything but left it on the plate, having pretended the mouthful was nice so as not to offend her. About 10 minutes later she began to berate me for being greedy and taking a cake that I could not eat. That was not the first time that evil cow did that, nor the last. That's 45 years ago and I can still taste it.

So OP, I entirely sympathise with your son, I think anyone would know that you will check with him that he understands how to deal with this sort of thing in future, and if he did bang a glass that's not Ok. But the adult on this occasion was rude and at 10 for crying out loud how was that boy to know exactly how to deal with it? He is a CHILD.