To not discipline DS for shouting at an adult

[riverotter]

DS(10) is normally quiet and quite polite. However, he can explode a bit if pushed.

He was at a friend's house last night and I picked him up at just after 8. The mum seemed a bit quiet and this morning she sent a text asking if we could talk so I called her.

Her version is that DS shouted and slammed a glass down on the table and it made everybody feel very uncomfortable. Obviously I asked what brought it on and she said it was because her mum, so his friend's grandma, had offered DS a sandwich!

So I spoke to DS. He started crying and said he did but he didn't really like any of them so kept saying no thank you, no thank you. But apparently the gran kept saying go on, have one, they are nice, I've been making these all afternoon. He said she was waving one in his face when he shouted 'no, I said no.' (I actually taught him that phrase a while back.)

So - discipline or not? I'm not sure how to deal with this. I hate rudeness but I hate people who won't say no for an answer as well.

Just come back to this thread....dear God, how these things escalate....

OP - what do you want from this situation? Because it seems pretty clear from the mother's actions that she thinks your son has been very rude indeed in her home. She didn't just mention it casually when you picked him up; she's stewed on it overnight and probably discussed it with others, before coming to the conclusion that you needed to be told. So she takes what happened - whatever that was - seriously. So, as it stands, your son won't be invited there again. (Nor, I suspect, will he be invited to the homes of any of the other children present - these sorts of things have a way of getting around, even if people aren't being deliberately malicious or gossipy.) So it depends on the outcome you want. But if you want to build some bridges, I would ask your son to apologise. You can do that in a way which explains his actions (he felt under pressure by the continued sandwich offering and didn't know how to react but is now very upset and sorry that he's been seen as being rude) and allows everyone a route back to where they were before.

nina hospitable would be 'would you like a sandwich? No? Ok then, sure you've had enough? Great.'

Not repeatedly ignoring a polite refusal. There is nothing hospitable or mannerly about that.

I haven't read it all as I want to respond without any other people's opinions in my mind.

From the description it seems the grandparent was being rather relentless in her attempt to pass he boy a sandwich. The adults need to learn to respect the wishes of a child, ask once, twice but don't keep asking over and over.

It feels suffocating, intimidating and very pressuring for a child to be faced with such a reaction when he's already clearly declined the offer. I'm not surprised he snapped - I suspect he had been polite and that hadn't worked so he felt quite out of control.

As for the 'no, I said no' phrase - that's fantastic and I'll be teaching it to my children. I have always taught very strongly that no means no, to both genders, in all scenarios.

He should have eaten the sandwich then puked them up in her lap

Natalia you don't know he won't be invited - if I'd witnessed this I think I would have felt sorry for him and if he'd been a pal of my DC I might well have invited him over precisely because of this.

The other mother said everyone felt uncomfortable after his outburst. Maybe is she'd been paying more attention she would have noticed a child in her home being made to feel uncomfortable by the actions of one of her relatives and could have stepped in and stopped that.

Great post Natalia.

Also, there is no way i would treat a visiting child like that and the granny was wrong to keep on at him. She obviously felt hard done by having to make the sandwiches.

I would be mortified if my mum pressured a kid into eating something like that and would tell her to leave him alone.

Nina2b

So an adult after watching someone have several things to eat from the table then eat pudding and fruit they decided that the person should start again and tried to force them to eat.

Despite the fact they are full up, despite the fact they say no several times you think it's ok to continue to try to force a child to do something they don't want to do and resort to pushing the food in their face?

Then wonder why they get upset and react?

If this was an adult it would be a whole different thread. There have been countless threads from women and the answer is always "No means no" " you don't have to explain yourself" "No is a complete sentance" etc etc .
Turns out this only applies if you are an adult woman. Wow.

Good post, Natalia.

DS(10) is normally quiet and quite polite. However, he can explode a bit if pushed.

You can get all the information you need from the first 2 lines.

He can explode when pushed. This isnt isolated, you know he does it.

If he does this sort of thing as an adult the consequences are more severe.

He is old enough to understand. Talk to him about keeping his cool in future.

I think these things are about power and control. For some adults its very important indeed that children should be made to eat what is on their plate. For some children it is very unpleasant to be made to eat - because they are full or because the food tastes in some way nasty.

I think if my child was made to feel uncomfortable at a house because they didn't want to eat something, I wouldn't really want them to go there.

I am not really sure that a child has the maturity to explain quite why they found the situation so distressing. So I would try to explain it, as diplomatically as I could on their behalf. Sometimes friendships come to an end because of different attitudes to/expectations of children. This might be one of those times.

The granny was the instigator of the situation. She might have thought she was doing something nice but lots of do-gooders do a lot of harm in the pursuit of enforced 'niceness'. After several polite rebuffs the granny kept pushing her unwanted goodness in his face. What about the atmosphere in the room, where other adults ramping up the pressure on the child to 'perform' for granny.

The child had no where to escape to, no adult to protect him and his rights. So under duress he acted in self defence, put his drink down (didn't break anything), raised his voice and said NO. Most caring parents would have realised the distress they had caused the child and said, "sorry, its ok you dont have to eat the sandwiches". Instead they decided to blame the child defending themselves and excuse the adult who caused the problem.

The world would be a better place if more people stood up for themselves and adults stopped expecting children to 'perform' for their pleasure.

User
You say no, but they keep offering and pestering you. Going on and on 'have the food, go on!' 'Eat the food' 'you really need to eat it!' Eventually you would snap. I don't believe anyone that says they wouldn't and for people saying 'no thank you' would've been better for the op to teach her child.

All very well except for the mother's comment that the child has form for exploding a bit when pushed.

He can't be allowed to get away with this. This habit has to be stopped.

Yanbu.

Why should he have taken the sandwich and had a nibble?! If a woman was on here complaining that she had refused an offer of a drink from someone, and they hadn't taken no for an answer, would the stock reply be 'oh you should have taken the drink and just had a sip or two'? Would it fuck.

No means no, however old and whatever the circumstances.

x-post with NikiBabe.

My exH was allowed to get away with 'exploding a bit when pushed' as a child, and he grew into a teenager big enough to get away with it whenever he felt he was being 'pushed'.
He is a very angry and most unhappy man.

niki and mathan
Whilst I agree the ops child reacted badly we mustn't ignore the incessant behaviour by the granny that caused a child to feel trapped.
We teach behaviour by modelling. Showing a child no respect will not lead to the aforementioned child being respectful.
It takes a village and all that.

Teach your child to have some respect for the elderly. For all you know that woman has dementia

And for all you know that granny is 40 and is nowhere near elderly! Not all grandparents are elderly and have dementia, which is I think where there are some issues, everyone is imagining "granny" to be some white haired old lady just trying to be nice, whereas I'm imagining my mum (as my DD is 9, a year younger than the OP's DS) ... who is definitely not white haired, old or suffering any ill health and more than capable of understanding that a child saying "no thank you" means they mean they do not want what is being offered.

My 54yr old mother is a grandma and has been since my eldest nephew was born when she was 43 ... she would never behave this way to any of her grandchildren, or their friends! She might be keeping an eye on what the kids were eating, but more just to see if they'd eaten something substantial and not just gorged on sweets and nothing else ... and she'd make sure to offer everything to everyone at least once, but in a "Do you want a sandwich? We've got X/Y/Z fillings. Sure? Ok, well can you please eat something from the main choices as you can't just eat sweets? Thank you" rather than badgering one person

He can explode when pushed. This isnt isolated, you know he does it.

BECAUSE HE'S 10!

I doubt the OP's DS is exploding or having tantrums regularly, but the OP has acknowledged that he's still a child who is learning to control his emotions, and on occasion can let his frustration get the better of him. And at the end of the day, he raised his voice and forcefully put a glass on a table when pushed too far, that's hardly flipping the table and raging out of control.

My DD is 9, she's a lovely girl but when it comes to her temper she has a very long fuse but once she reaches the end of it, the smallest of things can lead to an epic meltdown. So if you keep pushing her, and pushing her and pushing her, she will eventually snap and lose her cool. That doesn't make her a monster in the making, it makes her a pre-pubescent child who is still developing and learning how to control her emotions.

FFS not all 'elderly' people (and who says the granny is elderly anyway?) have dementia some are just ignorant bullies who think their wishes are more important than other peoples.

I dont think your son did anything wrong. Maybe didnt have to slam the glass but he doesnt have to eat something if he doesnt want to. My dhs family come from a culture where the oretty much force feed you and themselves when people visit. Gets on my T@ts! I end up having to say in a deep controlled manner. NO THANK YOU! after the 20 millionth time of being told im too skinny! Im average by the way. And that its rude not to eat it. Well it would probably be rude if i throw up from over eating too! Its been 9 years. They still do it. But at least he stuck up for himself. Hes young and hes trying to be assertive. Maybe just have a nice chat with the mum and explain what ds said. Apologise on his behalf. I dont know anyone from my friendship grouo who would have stewed over this
Maybe making a passing comment so the mum was aware if it was broight up. But seems to me the adults were too much

He should have eaten the sandwich then puked them up in her lap

You win the thread.

No, seriously, I wouldn't ever wish for a child to be sick, but she'd really have deserved that.

A nice granny who really just wanted to be kind and thought he refused out of politeness would have been shocked by the outburst and apologized for pushing food on someone who really didn't want it.

Clearly not what happened here, instead he's being blamed for not being polite enough after declining politely several times.

And to all those assholes who insist on claiming that the boy will grow up to be a violent man, I can only say, I don't even fucking care if he reacts the exact same when in ten years his wife behaves like this granny, because that's fucking shitty behaviour, and anyone who can't accept a no fucking deserves to be shouted at. (Or even better, puked on)

My children know the difference between a woman pushing food on them and a person sexually abusing them. Full stop. They may have higher levels of emotional or social intelligence, not sure whether that is by nature or nurture or a mix of both. But it would be absolutely unacceptable for a child of mine to shout at an elderly woman like that, and slam a glass violently. That is NOT normal and needs to be addressed. The root of that violence and intolerance needs to be identified and addressed.

So, no to discipline, but yes to a very serious discussion about appropriate reactions, even in irritating situations. Life is full of irritating people and in order to succeed in life and the working world, we need to be able to tolerate people that we may feel like screaming at (or punching!)

The lady was being kind but the boy behaved like a tantrum-prone toddler. However, what's acceptable at 2 is not so easily excused when you reach double figures.
I think word will get round and he will have to cope with the embarrassment of that.

What I always find truly fascinating on threads like this is some people's inability to extrapolate out.

"It's only a sandwich, hardly child abuse!" completely misses the point that it is not about what's being offered, it is about training the child to accept that the adult is Always Right and the child must Always Do What the Adult Wants. This sets a scenario for later abuse by an abuser, because the training is in place.

It's really not that hard to work it out.