To not discipline DS for shouting at an adult

[riverotter]

DS(10) is normally quiet and quite polite. However, he can explode a bit if pushed.

He was at a friend's house last night and I picked him up at just after 8. The mum seemed a bit quiet and this morning she sent a text asking if we could talk so I called her.

Her version is that DS shouted and slammed a glass down on the table and it made everybody feel very uncomfortable. Obviously I asked what brought it on and she said it was because her mum, so his friend's grandma, had offered DS a sandwich!

So I spoke to DS. He started crying and said he did but he didn't really like any of them so kept saying no thank you, no thank you. But apparently the gran kept saying go on, have one, they are nice, I've been making these all afternoon. He said she was waving one in his face when he shouted 'no, I said no.' (I actually taught him that phrase a while back.)

So - discipline or not? I'm not sure how to deal with this. I hate rudeness but I hate people who won't say no for an answer as well.

No jiggly it was not politness that stopped you you were shocked/scared by the adult. Do not confuse the 2. Politness was not the problem the pervert was.

I am sorry it haplened to you but at no point was a polite upbringing to blame. And yes you are victim blaming as you said yourself YOU didnt stop it. You were the victim and a child it was not on you to stop it.

@CosmicPineapple it's not victim blaming. And grooming is a process ,that takes quite a long time and begins with crossing small boundaries. Not knocking on a door, insisting to sit on their lap,here have cookie,sit next to me,I got this especially for you give us a kiss, aww you don't want to hurt my feelings,I'm all sad now ,I've been waiting all week to give you these cookies, asking for a kiss(I mean it's your grandpa perfectly normal yeah?!?) , the kiss is uncomfortable and leery ,but that's what you do,and you have to respect your elders, and you don't say no,that's just rude. And there's a hand here and there,maybe by accident,maybe not. But you're a kid and you don't know, and you hear every day about respect,about being polite, how bad it is to be rude,to say no,to stay away. So you doubt yourself. Can you say something? Whom to? Is it really wrong? There are so many people in the room and bo one says nothing. Oh yeah, and grownups are always right and they know better. And you're just a kid. Then more stuff happens and you definitely know it's wrong , but by then it's too late.

I don't care how many feelings are hurt. I want my kid to feel confident enough to say no,on her own or in a room full of people. Even if it starts with "just a sandwich".

Of course politeness doesn't cause child abuse.

Peng - you're minimising. He didn't react because he was annoyed or thwarted. He reacted because he was communicating his feelings extremely clear and he was being ignored.

He communicated verbally politely and when that didn't work, he escalated his response to make it extremely clear that he really didn't want the fucking sandwich. An adult would have swore. He's 10 so he banged a glass. Meh

Revel this is a fucking sandwich. Is the granny grooming him now?

Even if a child is groomed it is still not the childs fault if they do not say no!! It is not politemess that is the issue. Perverts that groom do it so well that even parents adults are unaware.

Do not put being a polite child in the same sentence as being groomed. Its sick.

If I knew the behaviour was out of character I'd just quietly let the matter drop without consequence.

I'm with kiwi, and it sounds like the gran was at fault to some degree.
The most I'd do is talk about an appropriate response, but if I did that I'd trust his version of events.

You don't teach good behaviour by justifying adults' bad behaviour, and if the gran really was insisting in the way your son describes, she behaved badly.

Jiggly you are blaming you being polite for the reason you are abused. That is wrong and at no point were you at fault ever. He was 100% responsible.

I am not patronising or a peice of shit.

@Pengggwn sorry for derailing the thread.
The point is it starts small. A kid needs to practice and build up confidence to be able to speak up in that situation.

Do you really think a kid that can't/won't say no to a sandwich, or worse eats it to keep adults happy(like so many posters suggested) will suddenly feel empowered enough to say no in a situation that is a lot more shocking,threatening and dangerous?

Bananas: "Yes, there are rude children. But I can certainly remember friends' parents being very very insistent and forceful that I eat food I was allergic too or which was against my religion when I was a kid, and them being mortally offended at the most polite no thank you. Some adults believe anything less than total obedience from children is rude."

Yep, me too. How sad that way of thinking is still alive and well on MN sadly.

"The most I'd do is talk about an appropriate response, but if I did that I'd trust his version of events."

Should clarify: this would be a "how to deal with difficult people" conversation.

You need to teach you child how to control his temper not be proud of his ridiculously over the top response

Yes, to this. It's not really a matter of being rude to an adult to my mind. It's a matter of a disproportionate response to the situation, including the use of physical force. He needs guidance, not punishment. But it's possible to give this guidance without making it about respecting elders or not talking back, etc., which I think are irrelevant.

You are patronising Cosmic because you're presuming to tell me the reasons why I reacted how I did. I'm in my 50s and I've been a radical feminist for 30 years. I know exactly why I reacted how I did, thanks. Please do me the favour of listening to me when I tell you what was behind my reaction.

I'm still waiting for someone to quantify how many times a child should be expected to say "No thank you" before an adult accepts that they genuinely don't want what is being offered?

The OPS DS said "no thank you" about 5 times ... so does his "no" only become valid if he says it 10 times? Or 20? Or 50?

My DD9 has always been taught she has autonomy over her body and can choose when she is full or if she wants a sandwich at a buffet. Nobody gets to overrule her choice just because she is 9 and not 99.

The only crime DS committed was to let his frustration take over and stop being polite to be firm in his decision ... he's 10, it's perfectly understandable

@CosmicPineapple I was the child in my example. Dunno about sick but I probably am fucked up. Wonder why.

To answer your question to me Rebel Rogue - snapped in that way?

No, never. I was not brought up in that way and know it would reflect badly on me if I shouted, yelled, slammed things, threw things etc.

If I were in that situation today as an adult, I would say something like, 'Look really I appreciate you offering me the sandwiches and they look and smell lovely but I'm totally full at the moment. Maybe I could take some home for lunch tomorrow?'

Whilst I appreciate that a child might not be able to draw together a response like that ( understandably ) he could have said something different apart from the basic 'No thanks' which he'd already said to drive home the point. Gave an example earlier so don't want to repeat myself.

Fine Jiggly but as a feminist you must admit that it is never the victims fault when it comes to sexual abuse and stating polite children will be unable to stop it ( therefore putting it on the victim) because they are polite is not a very femminist outlook is it?

@userofthiswebsite and if after that they asked again and shoved a sandwich in your face? "Here just try this one".

OP, I don't think your son was unreasonable, and given we seem to have little to no context on the glass banging, I am choosing to assume he had a drink in his hand and simply put the glass down with the emotion of a young person not being listened too, rather than slamming a glass down to make a point.

I am sick to the back teeth of people expecting my children to comply with whatever idea they have in their head. It has taken a very, very long time for me to get out of the habit of taking the easy route to my own detriment order to appease someone else.

Your son could maybe apologise to the mother for his behaviour, acknowledging that he is sorry for upsetting her but he felt he wasn't being listened to and had politely declined several times.

Did I say it was my fault? I never thought it was my fault.