To not discipline DS for shouting at an adult

[riverotter]

DS(10) is normally quiet and quite polite. However, he can explode a bit if pushed.

He was at a friend's house last night and I picked him up at just after 8. The mum seemed a bit quiet and this morning she sent a text asking if we could talk so I called her.

Her version is that DS shouted and slammed a glass down on the table and it made everybody feel very uncomfortable. Obviously I asked what brought it on and she said it was because her mum, so his friend's grandma, had offered DS a sandwich!

So I spoke to DS. He started crying and said he did but he didn't really like any of them so kept saying no thank you, no thank you. But apparently the gran kept saying go on, have one, they are nice, I've been making these all afternoon. He said she was waving one in his face when he shouted 'no, I said no.' (I actually taught him that phrase a while back.)

So - discipline or not? I'm not sure how to deal with this. I hate rudeness but I hate people who won't say no for an answer as well.

So some of you have never raised your voices at persistent chuggers who won't take no for an answer? Bullshit

Actually I probably wouldn't have slammed the glass down. But I absolutely would have raised my voice

The posters who think that No means No only if someone is asking to see your knickers or get into a car, might like to reflect on the social pressure we all feel, never to say an outright No and how we can try and enable our children to in fact, be able to state their wishes and feelings clearly.

If you teach your kids that they should always be polite and nice and not worry about small boundaries being overstepped, when it gets to those big boundaries, they will simply not have the skills to assert them.

That's the thing about learning how to erect boundaries - we start on the small ones first. Like sandwiches.

You can't suddenly pull a great big bad NO out of the air when it comes to asserting serious, important boundaries (like go, on have a fag, have a shot, have a line, have a fuck), if you have never learned how to say no to smaller matters.

It's quite worrying that people don't seem to realise that.

@userofthiswebsite how many times have you snapped in the last 10 years?

This kind of insistence on excessive politeness is why British children are so bloody susceptible to abuse. Because they've been trained to never tell an adult no.

FFS - some of you really need to cop on

I'm shocked at so many posters. If somebody kept insisting I eat something after I had repeatedly said no thank you, I would have snapped too.

Good for you for teaching your son that his opinion matters. And he shouldn't fucking eat something when he is full up and doesn't want it just because someone insists he should.

There is a difference between boundaries and assertiveness, and violence (yes, slamming a glass on the table is violence). I don't see that there is any difference between a girl and a boy on this issue.

Under the circumstances, and given that he is only 10, I think him shouting is fine. Banging the glass not. I think the tears were because he knew he'd overstepped that boundary himself, and that is commendable in him. It's worth checking it wasn't due to the adults over-reacting, but from the behaviour of the other Mum, that seems unlikely (she didn't call for an early pick-up, didn't talk about it in front of the child, trying to shame him etc).

If he were mine, I'd be concentrating on the glass-banging and how it isn't acceptable - whilst fully backing him up on his right to say no. It's up to the other Mum to talk to her own mother/MIL about how guilt-tripping and coercion are unacceptable.

I understand where he was coming from. My nana used to do this. I'd politely say No Thankyou but that was not accepted and the badgering would go on and on until I snapped - at which point I would be reprimanded for being rude. If he tried being polite and that didn't work because an adult was pushing her own agenda into him and didn't listen to him or respect his answer, then I'm not surprised he'd snap. Had the roles been reversed, how would the grandma have reacted?

I would have preferred this child - who is getting a hard time from some folk for daring to stand up for himself with an advanced level of assertiveness - to have come up with an alternative line to silence this pushy woman. Something along the lines of, "What part of 'no' are you having difficulty understanding ?" Then we could insolence to the list. But that would be expecting a CHILD to come up with an ADULT comeback. Can't have that, can we ?

What AskBasil said.

I feel quite sorry for the boy, tbh.

Threads full of women on here egging one another on to 'deal with' pushy MILs and when it's a child (who by virtue of being a child is not mature and hasn't had as much time to practise calm but assertive responses) snapping after being driven into a corner he's the devil incarnate?

I would be soeaking to the mum and explaining that ds is sorry to have shouted and banged the glass down but that her mother was refusing to take no for an answer and he felt backed into a corner and desperate.

The interesting thing is that it is about an older person trying to force something into a younger person's body.

When that younger person is vulnerable because the 'safe', familiar people are not with them.

While the 'It's only a sandwich - it won't harm him' line is true up to a point, it is rather too reminiscent of the way adults can force children into other physical acts.

For instance:-

'It's only a kiss,'
'It's only a cuddle.'
'Grandpa/Uncle was only being friendly'
'It's polite to do as you're told.'
'Saying no is rude.'
'If you don't do what the clergyman/sports coach says, they will be cross and upset.'

So basically no means no unless you are a child and then you must give in to all badgering so as not appear rude because other kids are starving someone may have arthritis and the feelings of adults who don't want to hear the words no thank you trump even the nausea of over eating or the upset constant badgering will cause.

Got it

@AskBasil exactly. DD stayed quiet through something several times because it happened during carpet time ,and you're supposed to be quiet during carpet time. It took the HT to tell her it's fine to shout out NO/STOP loudly or tell the teacher for her to be fully reassured it's ok.
She's a well mannered,shy,polite little girl she also knows that no means no, be it sandwiches,tickles or someone's hands on her body and I am proud when she shows the confidence of saying that.

askbasil are you seriously saying the boy's response was appropriate? Don't be so ridiculous.

So much dramatic nonsense being posted.
It's not complicated at all.
The granny kept trying to persuade a 10 year old boy to have a bloody sandwich....She shouldn't have persisted if he said no!
The 10 year old got angry about it, shouted and slammed a glass down. He shouldn't have!
The boys mother is quietly proud and compressed with his behaviour. She shouldn't be!
None of them come out of this looking good.
There really isn't any need for deep analysis. It's about two adults and a 10 year old boy who are all at fault.
The boy IS only 10 so if his mother decides to teach him a better way, then there is a chance he could be better equipped to deal with a situation should it happen again.

Do people not read?!?

They were damn rude!

Your poor son, it's so frustrating when you're not listened too.

No adult would put up with that, so why should a child?

Impressed not compressed!

He kept saying no and she didn't listen - she ignored him over and over again.

Okay, so slamming the glass down wasn't ideal but the poor kid is 10! It's massively outside his cultural boundaries to really reinforce that he really does mean no so I'm not surprised that built up until he slightly lost control.

I would discipline for raising the voice (not to mention slamming a glass) at an elderly person who was trying to be kind. The elderly person could easily be the same age as me - 58.
Well done OP. The most irritating thread on here for a while.

Yes, Kiwi,we read. The woman was rude. The boy was much ruder.

This isn't complicated. The grandma was out of order and so was your son. You are not responsible for her behaviour, but you are responsible for his. You explain to him she should not have done what she did, but that does not excuse his behaviour. You talk through with him what would be a better way to respond next time something like this happens. Your son phones the mum and makes a quick and simple apology. It's a small, small problem. Help him understand how to manage it better next time and move on....

YABU. The really impressive kids are the ones who feel annoyed and stay polite anyway. If you want him to be well liked by others and tolerant as an adult, you'll nip this in the bud.

InSpace, if you look at my other posts you will find that I am not saying that the child's response was appropriate.

I was responding to some posts I noticed which seemed to imply that it isn't important to set boundaries around trivial things like accepting a sandwich and pointing out that if you think your kid will be able to assertively erect boundaries around something important when they haven't learned to practice doing that around something unimportant, then you are sadly mistaken.

It's pretty commonsense, not ridiculous.

The gran should have taken the first no as a answer! My mum does the same it gets on my nerves.

Nobody is saying that he should not have said no, it's the way he has gone about it that's rude. Certain situations in life may call for his reaction, this is not one of them. OP, feeling please at this is, well, a little bizarre. I would be embarrassed.
Ok so the Nan wanted him to eat more, she was hardly forcing it down his throat!