To not discipline DS for shouting at an adult

[riverotter]

DS(10) is normally quiet and quite polite. However, he can explode a bit if pushed.

He was at a friend's house last night and I picked him up at just after 8. The mum seemed a bit quiet and this morning she sent a text asking if we could talk so I called her.

Her version is that DS shouted and slammed a glass down on the table and it made everybody feel very uncomfortable. Obviously I asked what brought it on and she said it was because her mum, so his friend's grandma, had offered DS a sandwich!

So I spoke to DS. He started crying and said he did but he didn't really like any of them so kept saying no thank you, no thank you. But apparently the gran kept saying go on, have one, they are nice, I've been making these all afternoon. He said she was waving one in his face when he shouted 'no, I said no.' (I actually taught him that phrase a while back.)

So - discipline or not? I'm not sure how to deal with this. I hate rudeness but I hate people who won't say no for an answer as well.

I think the fact that it was a buffet picnic actually makes it easier for him to have said no without losing it. I was imagining a scenario where they were sitting at a dining table and the only thing offered was sandwiches.

I think you need him to understand that saying 'no thank you' then progressing to 'no, I said no' is not clear enough.
No thank you i have had enough 'No thank you I've already eaten loads of the other stuff etc. Give reason and she might have backed off.

A PP said he shouldn't have to eat something that made him sick - but from your post it was more that he just didn't fancy the sandwiches, not that he was going to be sick.

how the grandmother behaved is up for debate (he may have felt she was being pushy - she might say differently) but he can govern his own reactions. 10 is old enough to handle situations better than he did. As I said up thread - I was regularly in such situations as a child and from younger than 10 I would have handled it better and not been rude.

I think by ten children can get nuances of 'saying no' - yes of course children should never be forced to do something that would be harmful, and if anyone is trying to hurt them or physically force them to do something then 'No I said NO' loudly is perfectly appropriate and a good thing to learn.

But there is a big difference between that situation and a sandwich at a picnic situation. Life often throws at us situations where politeness an not being rude or hurting someone's feelings mean that we have to suck it up or find a tactful way of refusing, it isn't really OK for a 10 yr old to shout 'no I said no' and slam his cup down over a sandwich. It is old enough to distinguish between socially irritating situations and dangerous situations.

i think op i would tell your ds that he didnt handle it very well and perhaps explain that the consequences of being rude might mean he doesnt get invited again.
i would tell him its fine to refuse something that isnt wanted but to do it without throwing a strop (banging the glass down was rude)

i think id tell the other mum he felt a little backed into a corner but that you have talked to him and explained his rudeness wasnt acceptable.im sure it will blow over and be forgotten.

Velvet he didn't want a sandwich because he didn't like them and he was full.

You can be full as in not hungry but able to manage something. I am sure he would not have burst if he'd eaten one but he didn't want to

My MIL does this. Not the sandwich waving, but very persistent offering of food or drink, to the point where I want to yell and throw things (I don't). My DD finds it very, very uncomfortable, (so do I and DH) and it's now part of the reason she doesn't like going to MIL's.

However, techniques which we have taught her have included: thank you, but I'm still eating x, maybe when I've finished what's on the plate; or thank you, but I've eaten so much of the lovely [something] that I can't manage anything more; or thank you, but I'm full now.
It doesn't exactly work on MIL, but it makes DD feel more in control of the situation. Maybe some of those, or adaptations, might be helpful for your DS?
I can see exactly how your DS got to that point, and while I don't condone slamming glasses, I also don't expect a 10 year old to have the self-control of an adult.

OP, whilst I think your son overreacted with the shouting and glass, I think that just shows you need to talk to him about being appropriate to the context of the situation and teach him techniques to control his temper. After all he is only 10 but if he continues to react so emotionally he will end up in trouble. "No, I said no" is a valuable phrase for certain contexts but not all. It is all a juggling act.

Equally, and I hate to tread on the "analogy" idea, which I assert I was not making, I was just pointing out that the same behaviour in a different context would be perceived differently and result in trouble . So a child clearly would need this pointed out.

I don't think it was a strop. I think he felt stressed and sort of burst.

Leave it on his plate, nibble a bit of crust at most.

he just takes one and doesn't eat it.

But why?? "No thank you" should be enough. It is a polite response to being offered food. Has already ticked the box for polite response, he doesn't need to then go on and pretend to want it in order to be polite. "No, thank you" is as valid and acceptable a reponse as taking the food and eating it.

Do you think you might be projecting your own issues here OP? Are you yourself quiet and have suffered for it?

To say you're impressed by your son's behaviour under these particular circumstances suggests that you're proud of the way you've brought him up.

But he lost his temper and was rude.

This is not something to be proud of.

What do you think sanctioning him would achieve?

He was in an awkward social situation, feeling stressed. The adult was behaving inappropriately and he had no way to escape. He used a strategy that he had been taught to manage similar situations. In doing so, he was more forceful than necessary. He made a misjudgement in a difficult situation.

Had he done this several times before, debriefed with you, been offered other, more appropriate responses to use and still been rude, there could be a reason to sanction him but, even then, that depends on why he wasn't using the alternatives.

This is the first time he has made this mistake. He needs someone to explain what he did wrong and help him work out how he could have responded more appropriately so he can manage it better next time. Sanctioning him wouldn't add to that.

Punishing children for making mistakes doesn't achieve anything. They need to be given information and taught skills that help them manage situations better next time. All a sanction would achieve would be to make him feel worse about something he probably already feels bad about.

Yes I agree. I suppose the problem is that you don't always know what will stress him out until he explodes.

OP what you just wrote ties in with what I said earlier; he's tried to be assertive but hasn't got that balance yet - the middle ground between calm and angry. He goes from one extreme straight to the other. Not uncommon for a 10 year old! Seems to me he just needs to learn how to be calmly and politely assertive - to state his position firmly but without being angry/rude. He wouldn't be the first and certainly won't be the last person to have to learn to find that middle ground - and that goes for many adults as well as children.

It's really important that he learns to say no. To firmly say no. This time it was a pushy grandma with sandwiches. Another time it could be a paedo. We need to empower our kids. We really do.

But what your child needs to learn, imo, is how to tone his no. And that's really tricky for all of us. Too appeasing and we risk encouraging arseholes. Too firm and sandwich granny gets upset.

Much love ❤️

Grandma was rude.

The boy felt backed into a corner.

The friends parent should have said "mum he's already said no just leave it"

The boy dealt with it immaturely- because he's 10 and 10 yet olds are immature. Mum needs to add to his strategies to help him deal better in the future.

There are a lot of grips needed on this thread!

I'm 56 yrs old and I have been known to get a bit arsey when people do not understand the concept of not wanting alcohol.

Sister: what do you want to drink
Me: Coke please
Sister: oh no you can't have Coke have a drink
Me: cokes fine thanks
Sister:no have a real drink
Me: I do t want a drink, Coke is fine
Sister: oh go one, just have one
Me: fgs I don't. Want. A. Drink
Sister: really are you sure
Me: yes I'm sure
Sister: I'll get you a wine
Me: OFGS ILL GET MY OWN BLOODY DRINK

And it's not just my sister - lots of people do this.

Number, I do. I know that I have been in similar situations with alcohol mainly as I don't drink. I once had to say quite curtly that I had an alcoholic mother who died of liver cancer so NO I really don't want any wine! Had a similar effect as Ds banging the glass but some people are a nightmare!

The problem was he wasn't assertive, he was aggressive - and that usually ends up with you being cast as the wrong doer (sometimes unfairly) and with you feeling stressed out and unhappy and angry. Being assertive usually makes you feel content that you have handled something well and calmly - clearly neither your DS, nor anyone else who was there, felt this way.

Spot on Kurri

I think apart from the glass slamming, your DS was fine.

My FIL does he constant food pushing too and I sit there saying no thanks, I'm good
Thanks until MIL tells him FGS she doesn't want anything. And that's because I was raised to be a mouse who shouldn't talk back or state preferences firmly. I'd not want to raise my DC that way as they can get into sticky situations that they don't know how to get out of and go along with for the sake of being polite. and that is not ok.

The YouTube video consent/cup of tea by the Thames Valley police develops this theme about the importance of accepting no.

Get a grip of the situation OP and start raising your child in the correct way.

My mother is always very pushy with her cakes and her tea. My kids would never behave in the way your son has to their own nan, let alone someone elses.

Perhaps you should have a word with your pushy mother. What tactics do your children use when she pushes her cake and tea on them? Actual Phrases and actions they have used please.

Sounds like you've given him the green light to be rude OP tbh.

Yes I think that is correct Kurri

He isn't normally Pandora

For a child trapped by adults who are repeatedly trying to get him to eat something he doesn't like and has repeatedly said no to must have been frustrating and intimidating. Then to have some woman wavi g a sandwich in his face is ridiculous
Maybe the adult should learn.somd manners and learn to take no for an answer.

After all according to mn "no is a complete sentance" you shouldn't ever have to say anything more.

I would just have a chat about alternative things to say/ do in.thst situation. I would get pretty pissed off if someone was waving food in my face trying to force me to eat it so why is it ok to do it to a child?

But you've said he can be explosive or however you phrased it so it's not the first time.

There's a time and place for " no, I said no " and this wasn't one of them.