WIBU to ask our nanny not to smoke before work?

[RelaxMax]

We have a new nanny - going ok so far, but she obviously smokes just before starting work, and on her lunch break. She very obviously smells of smoke when she comes in, and there's a fainter smell all day.

I hate the smell of smoke but more importantly I've read that third hand smoke on clothing can be harmful to young children and we have a 6 month old.

So I'm not sure what to do - as an employer can I just tell her not to smoke on her working days because of the smell and risk? Or is it none of my business what she does outside working hours?

If you did sack her could she claim unfair dismissal? Seeing as you never mentioned at the interview about smoking.

If you do sack your nanny OP, it's only fair that you give her a decent reference if all other aspects of her work and child care is good.
Because she might have turned down another post to work for you, and now you're sacking her for "breaking a rule" that you never mentioned before employing her.
If you have made it clear that you didn't want a smoking nanny, she could have gone and worked for someone else who would tolerate it and now just dump her

Id feel the same, I'd speak to her about it and if she won't stop making your home smell, I'd ask her to leave.

I find it strange that people say smoking makes a person reek all day. I smoke. I've been in my current job for nearly 5 years. Up until last years Christmas party, when I went outside for a smoke, nobody knew. I got lots of "Thyme, I didn't know you smoked" comments. So am I just special in that I don't reek like all the other smokers? Or are people exaggerating for effect?

Are you sure it is her that smokes and not somebody she lives with?

You said she has done a trial with you, did she go for a cig during that?

I understand where you are coming from. When I had my first baby 9 years ago, my mum was a smoker and I would constantly have to tell her not to kiss or hold the baby after she'd been outside for a cigarette. She then started to wear something on top of her clothes and would wash her hand and brush her teeth after a cigarette but I still didn't want her breathing on the baby. I personally wouldn't hire a smoker purely because I just can't stand the smell of the stuff makes me feel like I am suffocating.

I'd not have an issue with the smoking as you do but I uphold your right to have it. It doesn't matter what I or anyone else thinks, it's how you feel.
It would not be reasonable to approach her and ask her not to smoke on her way to work as you have no claim on her free time, so you're left with the option of serving her notice and re advertising for a non smoker.

I do wonder just how many people would really tolerate a nanny who smokes.

Thyme, I always know when someone smokes. I know when they have eaten garlic or onions a day earlier. Or anything fishy. Sometimes I can tell someone is pregnant just by the smell. I must be part bloodhound though, I know my sense of smell is very acute.

If you did sack her could she claim unfair dismissal? Seeing as you never mentioned at the interview about smoking.

She'd need two years employment to do that, unless there is a related discrimination issue (there doesn't appear to be).

It's up to you if you dismiss her or not OP but if you do, I'd hope you pay her more than her statutory notice entitlement. It's you that is changing the boundaries here, which you are entitled to do, but the nanny should not be out of pocket as a consequence.

Part bloodhound

As an employer you DO have the right to dictate how someone turns up for work. You can't force someone to quit smoking but you can tell them not to turn up smelling of smoke. You can't tell someone to quit their hobby of off-road quad biking but you can tell them not to turn up dripping mud everywhere. You can't tell them not to have their breakfast in the pub but you can tell them not to turn up pissed.

Poor DCs never stood a chance hiding anything smoking related.

Exhaust fumes are more harmful than some stale smoke on someone's clothing.

So what? This is such a non-argument. Bleach is more harmful to drink than alcohol, it doesn't mean it would be OK to give a child alcohol. There's not much we can do about exhaust fumes, there is plenty we can do about employees.

TmiTuesdays she definitely didn't smell of smoke, i've known this person ages, the parents had obviously employed her thinking she was a non-smoker and not asked and then decided to hound her out.

I think it's cleaner if you give notice, and say why, rather than making someone paranoid about how they smell, or worrying that they're secretly smoking on the sly. Has all the makings of a bad farce.

I've learnt the hard way to specify important requirements upfront - what'll likely happen is she loses a job and you have to find a new nanny.

To whoever asked - no, she didn't smoke at the trial - it was only a morning so no breaks.

And yes obviously we should have asked about it - this is our first time hiring a nanny and it didn't occur to us, it's just not on our radar as we don't really know any smokers. Equally I think she's been a bit deceptive making sure she didn't smell at interview or trial and not mentioning it.

She's still in her probationary period so we can sack her for any reason, including just not being a good fit.

Tbh if she agreed now to stop smoking I'd always be worried about her starting up again in future, so I think we will have to end her contract.

I don't know why you are getting such a hard time, you wouldn't even know she smoked if it wasn't for the smell. I have some friends who smoke and they don't smell of fags, but then there are people whose breath and clothes stink of them. Grim. I think it's to do with the type and quantity they smoke and maybe even how well they wash their clothes and themselves! You're well within your rights to tell her you don't want her to smell of smoke at work.

i agree with bombardier what I'd do is give her a generous notice, apologise and feel bad about it and make sure I didn't make the mistake again.

I do wonder just how many people would really tolerate a nanny who smokes

Despite being sympathetic to this smoking nanny, I wouldn't employ a smoker.
The difference is that I would make this clear at interview and not waste either of our time

A Nanny job is very different to others. For example, you don't get scheduled breaks or lunchbreaks - you eat when the child(ren) does, or when they are napping.

You are also setting an example for the children. You're in their home / their environment / outside their school / with their friends etc.

It's quite within reason to expect your nanny not to smoke / be on the look out for their next fag.

exactly RelaxMax, you'll always be suspicious because it's an addiction. I employed an occasional smoker who got really stressed on the job and ended up having a cigarette in my garden - she asked as I was around but I didn't want to be put in that position.

Chalk it up, pay her off nicely and move on.

this is our first time hiring a nanny and it didn't occur to us, it's just not on our radar as we don't really know any smokers. Equally I think she's been a bit deceptive making sure she didn't smell at interview or trial and not mentioning it.

She wasn't being deceptive. You messed up by not asking. And it's not on your radar? Really? Walk down any street and you'll see people smoking.

Hopefully next time it will occur to you both to ask at the interview stage.

and I also didn't ask, like you, because it didn't occur to me she smoked - but it's on us to ask, I don't think her not mentioning it is important.

I've never rocked up to a job interview for a job I wanted and pointed out reasons they shouldn't employ me. (btw the stress was unrelated to the job it was family stress that made her start smoking more).

Well, it's hardly 'deceptive' not to smell of a fag at interview OP.

I wouldn't of employed a nanny that smokes

Well, it's hardly 'deceptive' not to smell of a fag at interview OP.

I think the OP is keen to assign more perceived moral failings than just being a smoker on to the nanny as she gears up to let her go.