WIBU to ask our nanny not to smoke before work?

[RelaxMax]

We have a new nanny - going ok so far, but she obviously smokes just before starting work, and on her lunch break. She very obviously smells of smoke when she comes in, and there's a fainter smell all day.

I hate the smell of smoke but more importantly I've read that third hand smoke on clothing can be harmful to young children and we have a 6 month old.

So I'm not sure what to do - as an employer can I just tell her not to smoke on her working days because of the smell and risk? Or is it none of my business what she does outside working hours?

Non-smokers clothing attracts the smell due to ions which are still present after the cigarette has been smoked. This radiation has been known to cause lung cancer and other tumours so if she's picking up your child, she's exposing them to lots of nasty chemicals, sorry.

Non-smokers clothing attracts the smell due to ions which are still present after the cigarette has been smoked. This radiation has been known to cause lung cancer and other tumours so if she's picking up your child, she's exposing them to lots of nasty chemicals, sorry.

Please can we see the link you have to prove this radiation

"so please could you take extra care to stand upwind, wash your hands and face and put your jacket in a sealed bag when you come inside."

Sheesh. If I was the Nanny and this was requested of me, I'd resign from the nutjob household in a heartbeat....

(I'm a lifelong non-smoker, BTW).

I once interviewed a childminder in her garden and she said that no, she didn't smoke. Someone in the house clearly did though as the house stank of smoke when we went inside. I didn't use her services!

I think the issue here is that at no point in the hiring process was non-smoking brought up. This is kind of like finding a flat that accepts pets- 999/1000 say no pets, the one that doesn't state that gets more attention from a pet owner. Bad example I know sorry! As a nanny for many years myself I could always tell nannies who smoked in breaks, just before work, you can smell it on them. Then I've met some who don't smell at all of smoke and then say they do- you'd never have guessed because they take the time to ensure no stink.

Working in someone's house, you are expected to abide by different rules, unspoken or specified. I'd never wear strong perfumes or scents, bring very smelly foods unless certain the smell would have gone or been overpowered by hand-over time. I'm not sure of the health risks of third-hand smoke but I know for damn sure many people now associate the smell of fags with bad health, bad choices, it does lower some people's view of the smoker, even unconsciously. It's something I'd go out of my way to get rid of.

I'm not going to say sack or anything, but there needs to be a discussion. As others have said smokers don't always notice the smell or think it's not as bad as non-smokers think. Nanny may not notice the smell, or may not care, two very different things. If no change after discussion that's a very different thing. Sacking for an issue never raised nor mentioned at interview is very poor and unprofessional. Although within a home it's still a job, a career, and communication is just as important as in an office. I think sometimes people lose sight of that.

Oooooh, that'a a tough one indeed. I'm a dirty smoker, and I'm extremely paranoid about it. I'd never smoke indoors anywhere, ever, under any circumstances because that's gross (although I do smoke in my car on long trips - with the windows wide open of course), and I am horrified at the thought of others smelling smoke on me, annoying others with the smell or the smoke, or in some cases of people even knowing that I smoke. And I especially try very hard to never go around children when I would smell of smoke.

If I have been smoking and I find myself around children, I will go to the toilet and very thoroughly wash my hands, arms, and face (luckily I don't wear make up); add some lightly scented lotion or very mild scent spray (not perfume as I find that only makes it worse); lightly spritz my hair with the spray as well; and then I'll try to change shirts if at all possible or at least remove my cardi. If I go on a long drive where I know I'll be smoking, like when I go to visit my sister and her DC a couple hours away, I'll set off in an ugly old shirt, with the top I intend to wear for the visit in the trunk, and I'll change when, or just before, I arrive. I haven't had any complaints, and my sister for one absolutely would not hold back if I smelt of smoke and tried holding her infant, so I think my method works fairly well!

Could you ask your nanny to do something like that ^^ before she comes in to be with your DC? If you don't want to outright sack her right away, perhaps tell her that you don't want to dictate what she does outside work hours, but since it is affecting you, your home, and your children, could she please consider smoking outdoors, and then when she arrives to work please try changing clothes, washing her hands and arms and face, and maybe also carrying some lightly scented lotion or spray to add after washing? You could ask her to do that, give it a trial run, and then revisit the issue or even let her go if that doesn't work and the smell is still bad.

And, holy hell, she really needs to stop smoking in an enclosed environment!! If her smoking is affecting the smell inside your home, she is definitely doing it wrong!! She should only smoke OUTDOORS FFS, and at least roll down the bloody windows if she's smoking in the car - especially if she is hanging out with children - because no person should ever smell so strongly of smoke that it lingers after them when they leave! She must be absolutely wallowing in smoke with zero ventilation if it's that bad!! Bloody hell!

BTW - I think you definitely should demand that she not smoke in front of or around your children, if you have not told her that already.

^^Oh ffs, I completely missed TWO entire pages of this thread! I somehow thought that there was only the one page!

Obviously I have not RTFT after all, so apologies if my (overly long) reply is way out of date or covers things that have already been covered!

Bbcessex you 'judge the intellect' of people who smoke???
You can choose a non smoker to look after you're kids but you ARE NOT superior to people who smoke because you don't! Christ on a bike MN strikes again 🙄

For those that have requested evidence re 3rd hand smoke, this article has a general summary. It appears that there isn't a definite conclusion as to how high the risks are but as a HCP I still advise parents that it's preferable to make sure anyone handling their children wash their hands, change their outer clothes, clean their mouth and face and even brush their teeth after smoking. www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3040625/

purplealienpuke

How funny. Of course I judge the intellect / sense of those who smoke? Why on earth wouldn't I?

I think the issue here is that at no point in the hiring process was non-smoking brought up

I asked at the interview stage and made it clear I would not employ a smoker.

Oh wow just saw this popped up in active conversations, didn't realise there'd been so many more replies, sorry! Thread had vanished from my "I'm on".

To answer a few questions:

• She gets breaks because I am at home as well, so like to spend time with the DCs when I can, happy for her to take a (paid) break then.

• we didn't specify non-smoker at interview, it just didn't occur to us.

• she only started last week and is part time, so has only had a few days with us. Much too soon to know whether she's going to be great, reliable etc in any other way, and the DCs aren't settled with her yet, she has just been helping me/playing with them, not had any sole charge care.

• she really does smell. Yesterday she held the baby for about 5 minutes and he smelled noticeably of smoke when she handed him back. I had to give him an extra bath to get rid of the smell.

So the update is: I told her honestly that I was going to bath the baby, because he smelled strongly of smoke. She seemed really shocked. I said obviously the smoking was a problem for us because there was a noticeable smell, and we don't like that in the house or on our DCs.

She was very defensive - claimed she didn't smell at all of smoke, her boyfriend would tell her if she did so she was very sure. I pointed out that we only know she smokes because of the smell so obviously there is a smell, and said that smokers often don't realise how strong the smell is for non-smokers.

It was a pretty unpleasant conversation actually - it's very very awkward telling somebody that they smell bad!

I apologised for not specifying earlier on that we needed a non-smoker, but said ultimately we wouldn't have hired her if we had known (at which she looked really glum and said "yes nobody hires a nanny who smokes", so I do think she knew it's a problem!).

Anyway. She's gone. We've paid her some extra notice pay, we'll give her an honest reference if asked (although unlikely as she was ultimately with us for one week, so I doubt we'll be on her CV!), and I've explained to the agency that we will only consider non-smokers.

Thanks to everybody for the input, I was a bit divided about how to deal with the problem and it helped to hear a range of views.

well done op it sounds like you handled it well. good luck with your nanny search xx

The right result. Well done op for dealing with it.

You dealt with it really well. Hopefully your honesty will make her think twice about smoking!

Well done. It's your child at the end of the day and your money. If you are not happy why should you have kept her? Let others moan that "it's not fair bla bla". If she wants to smoke she should choose a career where it isn't an issue or go with a family that doesn't care about the stench. I'm an ex smoker and find it repulsive that ppl still make excuses for that disgusting habit. Your baby= you have to make the best decisions for them, regardless of what others think especially if it's about about health.

By "an honest reference" yes I do mean I'll say the smoking was an issue for us, I wouldn't want another family to be put in the same position. Obviously (based on this thread) some people don't mind it! Anyway I highly doubt she'll list us as a reference after such a short job!

Bbcessex so in your opinion anybody who makes an alternative lifestyle choice to you is intellectually inferior?
Do you really believe that?? Are you a world leader in your field of expertise? Renowned brain surgeon perhaps? I wonder what makes you qualified to be so judgemental? I just find it very difficult to understand how anybody can judge somebody's intelligence/intellect on whether they choose to smoke.
I don't drink but wouldn't assume people who do are beneath me or have a lower value in life because they choose to lose to!!
I hope you surround yourself with perfect people who conform to your ideals 🙄

@Purplealienpuke, no you're right, it is wrong to judge. But it is hard for non-smokers to understand why you would smoke with the known health risks?? Not intellectually inferior obviously but can you really say it's a sensible choice bearing in mind what we know about smoking.

It is true of course that obesity and drinking to excess are known health risks too, and sometimes it is a bit rich when someone who is obviously obese goes on about the dangers of smoking and drinking. (I like a drink of wine but I don't smoke. I struggle to maintain my weight though.)

But we have to eat obviously and drinking in moderation doesn't risk our health. Whereas smoking even a little bit risks lung cancer to both yourself and those around you.

I'm not trying to be judgemental, just explaining why you get the reactions you do because you smoke.

Anyway, you handled it well, OP.

Re giving a reference, it's not likely to happen, but the OP would be asked why she didn't keep the nanny on. She would have to mention the smoking. But as we've all agreed, that should come up at the interview stage anyway.

The baby smelled of smoke after she held him? Really?
Unless she was smoking while holding him i don't see how that could happen.

HoHoHo i assume it's because she smelled of smoke, had smoke on her clothes, and the smell transferred onto him. I don't know why you're confused by that tbh, smells transfer from one person to another all the time.

You can choose a non smoker to look after you're kids but you ARE NOT superior to people who smoke because you don't!

I think we can safely say that non-smokers have superior judgement and health to smokers.

I'd do everything in my power to get her fired - glamorizing smoking thru vaping in front of children is stupid to the extreme. If someone is such a drug adicet they can't wait till lunch to vape they are pretty fucking gross

I'm not against smoking, people do what that want and it's not up to me doneictate what they do with their bodies (I'm also an ex-smoker btw)

But I have to agree with this - why in the name of god must the TA smoke during class? I really cannot see a reason why this would be needed and if I was a parent I would not be impressed. Vaping should fall under the same laws as smoking in my opinion.

In this case Op yes you screwed up by not asking at interview but I think you will need to let her go, just maybe give a longer garden leave or notice period than you normally would and a good reference if your happy in all other areas