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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To ask what has gone wrong in the UK

551 replies

Mumof56 · 10/08/2017 01:29

I'm talking about the latest sex grooming case in Newcastle. It's the seventh large scale sex gang scandal to hit the UK after cases from towns including Rotherham, Rochdale, Oxford and Bristol

I have seen nothing on mumsnet about this (although maybe I've missed it). This is shocking and outrageous. How has this been allowed to happen in so many areas? What is the solution?

This is "rape culture". Where are the (peaceful) protests and the show of support for these girls?

OP posts:
simon50 · 10/08/2017 10:10

Please don't think my post was victim blaming, its not intended to be.

It just seems we are unable to protect these poor girls due to their rights ?

noblegiraffe · 10/08/2017 10:11

The white female who has been convicted of 3 counts of trafficking and inciting prostitution was aged 17-19 when she committed those crimes.

I am reminded of the Three Girls programme where the older girl was accused of similar and she was also very much a victim of these men.

I can't imagine that this young white female was an equal partner in the abuse.

OfficerVanHalen · 10/08/2017 10:13

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Badconversationalist · 10/08/2017 10:32

But plenty of men think a girl being drunk and 'leading them on' is fair game. They don't think they are rapists because they don't think it's rape if she's into it one minute then a bit out of it the next.
Or don't care?

Or they think that if she gets served in a club they don't need to check her age or if she's sure she wants to have sex with them.
Because it means they can get away with it/justify it to themselves?

Or they think that if she gets into bed with them then anything goes. Because that's what they see in porn. They don't think they need consent for different sex acts or that they need consent for sex without contraception.
Or they don't give a shit?

They don't think they need consent to be pushy with their girlfriends. they think that a girl friend owes them sex and the don't see coersing her into it as rape. They see 'persuading' her into sex she doesn't want as part of the 'game' and how she likes to 'tease' him.
Yep, because women are less.

So no ofcourse the average boy doesn't need taught not to go and join a sex trafficking group. But he dies need taught all of the above amounts to rape, and he can be prosecuted for. But is highly unlikely.

Gonegonegone sorry for picking out big chunks of your post. It's not that I disagree, it just gets me thinking.

I think teaching consent as is often advocated supports the idea that it's confusing when I do not believe it is. I think it's much more about the fact men don't think they need it. Yes they can be prosecuted but of all the sexual assaults that happen, how many are actually successfully prosecuted?

The fact is there is little consequence for men. All those things listed, men are quite capable of understanding. It suits them not to.

The issue is less about consent as a concept I think and more about how men value women.

NAMALT is so tedious. How many men are part of the solution? Violence against women doesn't happen in a bubble. It's part of our culture.

Helendee · 10/08/2017 10:42

I don't know how to do links from my phone. Just google female on female rape statistics and find out for yourselves.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 10/08/2017 10:43

Watching with interest, while the elephant in the room is largely tiptoed around

Surprised, though, to see so many references to the race of the rapists; personally I think it's more about the culture, but there you go

DamnDeDoubtanceIsSpartacus · 10/08/2017 10:48

The elephant is men, that's what our society tiptoes around.

Our culture is a sexist as others just in different ways.

DamnDeDoubtanceIsSpartacus · 10/08/2017 10:51

There is a huge amount of historical abuse that hasn't even come close to being addressed. That abuse was committed by white males in positions of power across this country.

Lloyd45 · 10/08/2017 10:58

I would prefer to be a woman here than in Pakistan or Afghanistan. A woman has no rights. Young girls are put in prison for getting pregnant for having sex outside marriage even though she was raped, the men walk around free

MetalMidget · 10/08/2017 11:03

When I was at school, it was really common for my young teenage classmates to have 'boyfriends' who were blokes in their late 20s and older (and all white). A couple of the men were giant manchildren, but most were really nasty pieces of work. They'd give the girls alcohol and weed, presents, etc, and have sex with them when they were drunk. My classmates thought that was what relationships were.

I remember the one tried to get a few of the girls to have an orgy that he'd film - my mate said no, but I'm not sure about the other girls. They were only 14 at the time.

DamnDeDoubtanceIsSpartacus · 10/08/2017 11:04

Me too Lloyd, it's also okay to challenge the profound misogyny in our country too. Just because things re worse elsewhere doesn't mean that you have to put with shit in your own country.

whatsthecomingoverthehill · 10/08/2017 11:09

I heard Sara Rowbotham on Today this morning, and she was clear that it is primarily a problem of male violence against women and girls, and that is what we all as a society need to solve. But there have been a spate of cases where the men are predominantly from a certain background and we need to understand why that is. Part of that is looking at that culture, but part of it is also looking at the police/CPS response, attitudes of: the girls are willing participants, we can't stop them (even when some of the girls reported the abuse); scared of being accused of racism; not having the resources to properly investigate etc.

It is just the same in the celebrity/church/care home abuse cases - we need to understand what happened and why it wasn't stopped earlier to try and prevent such cases happening.

The thing that I find really disturbing about this is that it has been well known for a long time that grooming goes on in the gangs. Maybe part of the issue is that people were scared to point this out because fascist scum are all to eager to use it for racist ends. This is from 13 years ago.

Lloyd45 · 10/08/2017 11:13

Damn you are right and I think women's rights are going backwards in this country. I've had such freedom to do what I want when I want. I want my daughter to have the same freedom

WhatToDoAboutThis2017 · 10/08/2017 11:18

It's pretty obvious what's gone wrong, but we're not allowed to say it because it's "not PC". Well fuck that, when children are being raped it's about fucking time people actually realised the root of the problem and did something about it.

annandale · 10/08/2017 11:19

It seems likely to me that where you get particular groups with preexisting misogyny clustered in certain low status professions with little prospect of economic improvement or the female servitude they expect that give access to vulnerable girls (taxi driver?) you get this potential for a vicious culture to develop. My parents' generation (70s, 80s) react with horror when I talk about taking taxis - i always thought it was parsimony, but perhaps it was really about getting into a stranger's car.

GreenTulips · 10/08/2017 11:24

We were also warned about not taking certain taxis - you had to get a proper black cab - glad I followed that advise - plenty of males pretend to be licensed taxi drivers

GinaFordCortina · 10/08/2017 11:29

Plenty of licences cab drivers have sexually assaulted women to

noblegiraffe · 10/08/2017 11:34

I just googled female on female rape stats and even wikipedia didn't have any.

GinaFordCortina · 10/08/2017 11:42

The stats aren't about female on female crime specifically. Women aren't generally going out and being raped by women.

With In lesbian relationships there is a high rate of sexual and dv

GinaFordCortina · 10/08/2017 11:43

There are no lesbian gangs grooming women and women aren't cornering other in dark alleyways (which we say men never do, but actually does happen)

CherryChasingDotMuncher · 10/08/2017 11:44

I honestly don't see what's wrong with teaching our sons not to rape.

Rapists aren't always weird men in bushes wearing a mac attacking women. Rape comes in many forms including coercion. If parents aren't teaching them about the full spectrum of consent then they're screwed as society certainly doesn't teach them it

noblegiraffe · 10/08/2017 11:45

The only stats I could find were within lesbian relationships, lumped rape together with stalking and physical abuse and included men as perpetrators.

BertrandRussell · 10/08/2017 11:49

We should all teach our children that they should not have sex unless both people are showing enthusiastic sober consent.

noblegiraffe · 10/08/2017 11:56

I just heard my 4 year old DD yelling at her older brother 'stop means stop' because he was persisting in doing something that annoyed her. They've both heard the 'no means no' line from very early on, I don't think it should just be related to sex or only taught to boys, it's applicable to far more things. Maybe if it's ingrained as a rule-for-life, then it won't be seen as a murky area when it comes to sex.

BeyondQueenOfLists · 10/08/2017 12:01

Of course women rape (and are accounted for in statistics), here's one for example...
15 year old girl raped by woman