To ask what has gone wrong in the UK

[Mumof56]

I'm talking about the latest sex grooming case in Newcastle. It's the seventh large scale sex gang scandal to hit the UK after cases from towns including Rotherham, Rochdale, Oxford and Bristol

I have seen nothing on mumsnet about this (although maybe I've missed it). This is shocking and outrageous. How has this been allowed to happen in so many areas? What is the solution?

This is "rape culture". Where are the (peaceful) protests and the show of support for these girls?

"We didn't want to look racist"it's a convenient get out clause that not only absolves the poor police of guilt but sells us "pc gorn mad" culture. Fucking handy isn't it.

You think they don't use racial profiling during stop and searches in the UK?

And It of course doesn't explain Saville and other important white males. It doesn't explain the tiny percentage of rape claims that are dropped immediately without so much as a trial.

The truth is if the police were so pc they'd be desperate to eradicate rape culture. They'd be nipping this shit in the bud before it became "Asian gangs!!"

They would not be paying pedophiles 10,000 pounds to peeve on teen girls in the name of research

It doesn't explain the tiny percentage of rape claims that aren't dropped immediately without so much as a trial.

Vast majority of men don't group together to victimised girls and women.

But plenty of men think a girl being drunk and 'leading them on' is fair game. They don't think they are rapists because they don't think it's rape if she's into it one minute then a bit out of it the next.

Or they think that if she gets served in a club they don't need to check her age or if she's sure she wants to have sex with them.

Or they think that if she gets into bed with them then anything goes. Because that's what they see in porn. They don't think they need consent for different sex acts or that they need consent for sex without contraception.

They don't think they need consent to be pushy with their girlfriends. they think that a girl friend owes them sex and the don't see coersing her into it as rape. They see 'persuading' her into sex she doesn't want as part of the 'game' and how she likes to 'tease' him.

So no ofcourse the average boy doesn't need taught not to go and join a sex trafficking group. But he dies need taught all of the above amounts to rape, and he can be prosecuted for. Most rapists don't think they are rapists. They make excuses and self justify and part of why they get away with that is because their parents never taught them not to rape. It's absolutely on the parents of boys to teach them not to rape, not on the parents of girls to teach them how to avoid rape.

" Prosecutions of all sorts of child abuse are on the rise and that's because it's starting to be taken seriously and women are starting to be listened to"

That's because they are quivering in their boots that we've given up in response .... if they could get the sort of power they had over us in the past, they'd be at it again.

*Lloyd

white men rape, but...

😂

But what? They're white so it's fine?

I agree with below

Vast majority of rapists in the UK are white men.
It's our husbands, fathers, brothers, etc

Those girls were failed by society and patriarchy.

helendee

Did you teach your son not to hit?
Did you teach him not to call names?
Not to be unkind to animals?
Not to be rude?

THats parenting last I checked. If you live in a culture where people call names, fight and abuse each other, a parent needs to actively teach their children not to do those things.

We live Ina culture that tells men women sometimes say no when they mean yes. So yes, you need to teach your son not to rape. We teach them everything then leave the most important stuff to sex ed classes and porn.

When Russian fighters were raping women left and right do you think they specifically only hired Rapists or do you think given the opportunity a lot of men will rape?

I don't understand the fear of doing anything about it because of their race. what does that mean? Since when do the police and other authorities tiptoe around those of a different race?
There are plenty of Asians arrested and imprisoned due to criminal activities.

It's precisely because of the type of crime. You can't say that an Asian who sells drugs or steals something is doing it because the thing wants to be stolen or the drugs want to be sold. In the case of the girls in Rotherham that's what was said. They wanted this, they were in 'relationships' with the men and to deny those 'relationships' and call it abuse was racist.

I think the race may be relevant because they are not doing it to girls in their own culture and they may see the white girls as an easy target.

How would they feel if it was their own daughters.

I think they have been able to get away with it more because of the authorities and police being worried about being accused of being racist.

punchng.com/giving-women-expensive-gifts-not-licence-sex-scientists/

Gina

Of course I taught those things to my children regardless of their sex but felt no need to tell them not to go around raping women as it never occurred to me they would, any more than they would turn out to do other evil things.

Most men do NOT rape and while we are on the subject maybe we should be telling this to our daughters as well. The statistics for female on female rape are not pleasant.

There's a large scale CSE operation in our city (south west) and I'm pretty sure it is mainly white males. It's terrifying that something like this manages to stay semi underground.

I heard an amazing quote the other day*: it takes 50 women's experiences to dent one man's reputation. That, to me, is the heart of the issue. A man's reputation is a precious, shiny commodity, drenched in privilege. In comparison, a woman's experience is nothing, a speck of dust. It isn't not believed, it carries no weight.

So you need 100 women to take down one Saville, one Huntley, one groomer. Because women just aren't believed.

So to answer the op. Actually far better than protesting, or writing to you MP, or almost any other action you can take, it's far more powerful to just believe women's stories. Take that tiny, tiny risk that she might be lying (she's not) and just believe her story and give her experience the weight it deserves.

If every single person does that, then we will remove rape culture and removing rape culture is the only thing that will make a difference.

*Quote comes from the phenomenal Hannah Gadsby who has a show at Edinburgh just now, which you must see if at all possible.

Gah bold fail. For clarity the first sentence is the quote, the rest is my thoughts.

"The statistics for female on female rape are not pleasant"

Link, please?

I was raised in a large city near a very Asian area

We couldn't use the local park as the Asian boys hung out there in droves - they'd call use names and throw stones at us 'slag' etc (we were 12)

We were told it's because of 'their' culture - that white woman were fair game and 'didn't count'

It was the way it was!!

Luckily we loved and didn't have to walk through the park

These rape cases don't surprise me - police have turned a blind eye for years - it's the police we should blame for not stamping it out and allowing it to continue

Too many men and women uphold our sexist society. Women follow rules and when women are raped they are blamed for not following the rules. We never join the dots, we never point the finger at the sex that is doing most of the damage as our society is built to protect them.

We live in a country where a man can, literally, throw a woman under a bus and people will make excuses. We live in a country that reasons away why men kill their entire family.

Stop defending misogyny. Raise your sons to respect women as people, not objects. Start naming male violence. Then we can deal with it.

Lots of men sadly do rape women or other men.
Also lots of South Asian girls and women are abused within their families. And yes Indian and rural Pakistani culture is very misogynistic.

I do see what you're saying I suppose Alex. I feel that as a man you were noticeable/a target as a jogger. Women's experience is of being a target by existing.

Has anyone else noticed some contradictions here ?

'A complete lack of community in raising and safeguarding of children',(can't seem to do bold) yet there are so many threads on here where a poster wants to flame a stranger for stepping in and correcting a badly behaved child ? Please don't tell me its not the same thing, because it is.
We have given children so many rights, that as a poster said, they have the right to walk out of a care home and no one can stop them and the right to put themselves at danger in the hands of these gangs.

Interesting I heard an interview with the social worker who exposed this issue in Rochdale on Woman's hour ( I think)
It was fascinating but she was asked by Jenny Murray if she thought race was a factor and she said that she thought not
She said that the Police arrested Asian men for other crimes so didn't have an issue with that. She felt that the problem was victim blaming, with girls seen as worthless troublemakers who were complicit in their own abuse. There is a scene in the TV adaptation where Maxine Peak speaks to the family of one girl who are told that she is " working as a prostitute" and this seems to have been more he issue than race
We have a family member who was groomed in this way but luckily her Mum realised what was going on and as a nice middle class family they WERE listened to, I wonder if the girl had come from a sink estate if the police would have been interested.

YABVU Mumof56. What do you mean 'where are the protests'? When we protest we are accused of being man hating feminazis and at best ignored.

No, mothers haven't ignored or covered up for these men, they have been chasing the police and SS and been ignored or told to STFU and stop wasting police time. Parents have been told their children are 'prostitutes.'

You clearly dont understand what grooming is, or how adults select children who are vulnerable to grooming.
www.newstatesman.com/2012/08/how-rochdale-grooming-case-exposed-british-prejudice

There is a culture of treating children in care and children at risk as if they are the problem, not the victims. Girls in Rochdale and Newcastle who complained were called prostitutes by police, they were threatened with arrest.
Children are being trafficked worldwide. They are being sold online on escort sites.
It happens because there is a demand for sex with children.
Prostitution and pornography drive this behaviour. Making them legitimate and socially acceptable is how we got here.

www.theguardian.com/global-development/2017/jul/02/fight-for-my-daughter-battle-against-backpage-child-sex-trafficking

Unfortunately Its been going on for years with very high profile people involved - think High Court Judges, Chiefs of Police, Government Ministers and suchlike.,

25 years ago, my mum used to know someone in the police who was on a case like this - the three police officers involved got warned off - told not to take the case further. Kids from run down areas were being picked up in limos, helicopters, sports cars etc, and taken to big houses where they were used and abused in the worst possible way before being sent away with new clothes, gadgets and money, all designed to bribe them to keep their mouths shut. The pure power and 'respectability' (NOT!) of these bastards meant they could stop investigations before they started.

Bit like JS I imagine - 30 years ago a friend in the London Met Police was told about JS but they couldn't touch him - weren't 'allowed' to because of who he knew and all the good work he did

Helendee I'd love to see some stats too please.

Very, very frustrating that we can never have a conversarion about male violence, how prevalent it is and how we can combat it without having the usual 'oh but women are bad too'. I absolutely guarantee (without seeing the stats that you are definitely about to link and have definitely seen yourself) that more men are commiting rape than women. I'd bet it's a LOT more.

Of course I taught those things to my children regardless of their sex but felt no need to tell them not to go around raping women as it never occurred to me they would, any more than they would turn out to do other evil things.

Our culture is really hot on thou shalt not kill but which is why we don't do those things. Previously in our culture and in some other cultures still beheadings were a spectator sport.

There is no such thing as "evil" there is such a thing as culturally acceptable. Violence is 'evil' but you still tell your kid not to hit. And if your 17 year old son found his way in to a fist fight you probably wouldn't be too shocked.

We have a film and book trilogy based on the idea that women really just want to be sexually assaulted. This is our culture.

Gonegone I agree with you completely.

This appears to be a worldwide issue with the rights of women and children at it's core.
Men, in every society, for most of history, have ultimate power.
Women are second class. Not just in other cultures but in almost every culture.
Young boys and girls are property, commodity, an extension of the women.

Until there is real, proper equality amongst people the situation will continue forevermore.

I know a lad who went to prison for rape. His family refuse to believe it to this day.
It was a 'date rape' and that poor girl was shunned by so many in the community.
He was/is an amazingly nice guy. Raised by a single mother, had 3 sisters and respectful of women BUT he wanted sex. He took it. Neither he nor the other women in his life thought he'd done anything wrong!!!!
Society is so used to men having the power that we expect it.
We don't talk about it being wrong because it so fucking normal now.
We excuse behaviour.
Normalise it.
Embrace it even because it s what the men want.

How can that be changed across the whole world?

Also, sorry for what you went through Gonegone. I feel your pain.

Also, littlebooinabox came along and perfectly demonstrated what I meant about bloody women!!
On a thread about male violence we have to consider Myra fucking Hindley as an example of women do it too!!! A woman under the control of a man?
Ffs. Regardless of women being utter bastards too it's bleeding obvious that the majority of people who abuse their power to control and get sexual gratification are male. Men. Blokes. Guys.
Get real with your what about the women nonsense!

Men are the problem.
Male entitlement is a big problem.
Society across the world being led and controlled and 'guided' and overseen by men like Donald motherfucking Trump is the problem!!

How can it ever be any other way?