To ask what has gone wrong in the UK

[Mumof56]

I'm talking about the latest sex grooming case in Newcastle. It's the seventh large scale sex gang scandal to hit the UK after cases from towns including Rotherham, Rochdale, Oxford and Bristol

I have seen nothing on mumsnet about this (although maybe I've missed it). This is shocking and outrageous. How has this been allowed to happen in so many areas? What is the solution?

This is "rape culture". Where are the (peaceful) protests and the show of support for these girls?

who looks at this story and what springs to mind is "but not all men do this

I think that. Particularly because I have a son and I don't like the fact that by that reasoning alone, particularly on here, that he will turn out an abusive rapist because "that's what men are doing, men are the problem"

I don't assume all men are bad. That all men are rapists, that all men are abusive but that also doesn't mean I'm ignorant towards the ones that do.

As my son gets nearer the age where girls are more interesting than Stampy Cat and Star Wars, I will tell him what No means. That is doesn't need following up, it's a complete sentence and you listen. That if a girl says no, she means no. Likewise I will tell him the same applies to him, if he says no, it means no.

Protest, petition, I'm fully supportive and would get involved if it went any way to making a difference. Yes men need to be pulled up on their behaviour and I personally have no problems doing so but appreciate some don't feel comfortable but let's not turn it into all men are the same.

The sources I've read have stated there is no profile of a typical sex offender. In the U.K. most sex offenders are white men because most men are white. White men aren't proportionally more like commit sex offenses that any other races.

Rape has been going on in the UK for millennia.
It's in the blood of many men, and passed down from father to son.

If anyone thinks this is new they should check out the Old Bailey online. People were regularly put away for carnal knowledge of a child. And by put away I mean as a prisoner to Australia.

ReanimatedSGB Thu 10-Aug-17 02:13:33
I've heard from a few sources that this concept of the local authorities not investigating properly "because they were scared to be seen as racist" was not that big a factor - it was more a matter of percieving the victims as untrustworthy (young, in care, poor, working class, rebellious = well, they're all little scrubbers who tell lies, aren't they?)... and not really very important. Male predators have always been very good at picking victims who won't be believed, or who no one cares about.

I think you have a good point here. It's a class-led misogynism.

Men who get noisy about abuse of women when they can score racist points are not interested in supporting women or ending toxic masculinity

This ^

@ Oswin as soon as we try Talk about it, it's all wahhhhhhh not all men

I have a wonderful father and three brothers.
They treat women like humans. I am the youngest but I was never
treated like they own me. None of that no boyfriend crap. I was treated like they treat each other.^

So to use your own words "wahhhhhhh not all men

@OP wow, OP, is that all you took from Oswin's post?

What is wrong with people? Women do it too. Myra hindly was apart of the shocking sexual abuse that Lesley Ann Downy faced. There are multiple cases of women having relations with teenage school boys.

It isn't a male only problem. Although they are the the main demographic. There is outrage, however it's a topic the public rarely wants to discuss.

I don't know how it can be combatted, I just don't know.
I do think it's a widespread issue. I do think it's not just select groups of men who do it. I do believe that it's virtually the norm to have been sexually assaulted/abused as a child.
It makes me despair. Its not even just men. It's in the papers most days that there's a woman who's taken advantage of a child, whether it's a teacher or parent known to the child.
I think it is the same the world over sadly

I may be mistaken ? But there seems to be a recurring theme that a large proportion of these poor girls seem to be in and out of the care system and are desperate for someone to 'value' them.

We won't get nowhere until people stop moaning every time we bring up male violence.
It's a fucking epidemic within our society yet as soon as we try Talk about it, it's all wahhhhhhh not all men.

Totally agree.

yyy, simon

also that they are the kind of girl least likely to be believed and listened to, because they are perceived as trouble, as being the problem

whereas the men may be Asian, but they are also older, more established, and have the backing of their community

I resent this title. I actually think it is positive that the uk seems yo be a world leader in outing this dispicable abuse of children. It goes on everywhere we just appear to doing more about it. Agree with PP about Thailand it is repulsive the amount of men there in hotel pools and the beach with very young girls wearing forced smiles accompanying them.

"What is wrong with people? Women do it too."

Q.E.D.

Look at this website. Currently has listed 246 police operations investigating organised child sex abuse and trafficking.

The Needle Blog

And their attempt to catalogue ongoing police investigations.

Operation Greenlight

This our attempt to identify Police Operations related to CSA.

Operation Greenlight was set up because we were appalled by the revelations of sexual and other abuse of children and vulnerable young people in this country spanning decades. Operation Greenlight is intended to drive awareness of the situation by providing a focused resource that links to the wealth of publicly available information relating to abuse in children’s homes and other institutions. The purpose is to alert people to be more aware in order to protect our current and future generations.

GLO is intended to help build a clearer picture of the scale of abuse that has occurred. It is searchable by name, geographic region or police operation, and the system contains clickable links to take users directly to the source material for more detailed study.

Ugh, some of the replies on this thread. "Women do it too", "other countries do it worse", shall we just stop talking about it, then?

It is an epidemic but because the men are usually Asian we're not allowed to talk about it.
It's a particular modus operandi of abuse. Men of Pakistani/Bangladeshi Muslim heritage targeting vulnerable white girls. To deny that is beyond my comprehension. Another scenario which has been going on for decades is white men/women in authority in institutions that are meant to look after the vulnerable abusing children of all backgtounds. Identifying the first scenario does not deny the second.

Women do do it too. But not quite on the same scale, I'm sure you'd agree?

Particularly because I have a son and I don't like the fact that by that reasoning alone, particularly on here, that he will turn out an abusive rapist because "that's what men are doing, men are the problem"

I don't assume all men are bad. That all men are rapists, that all men are abusive but that also doesn't mean I'm ignorant towards the ones that do

This is exactly the attitude we need to stop. O one Eve said all me are bad. Too many are bough.

I don't like the thought of my son being labelled a rapist. However, and I'll probably get flamed for this - when 1 in 5 women in this country are sexually assaulted and 1 in 10 are raped, as Orwin put, that is an epidemic. If that was an illness or disease spreading to 1 in 10 people the country would be on national alert. And it's not 1 man doing it, it lots of men. So whilst I don't like thinking of my baby boy being part of the problem, at the rate men harm, I can only hope he isn't. And do my bit to bat away the male privilege that society will teach him he has.

It's not going to change if all we do is stand by and say "not my son, because I'll tell him no means no". This needs a proper campaign of education for all our boys before they turn into men and get sucked in by the droves of people defending them.

My son is only six months but the concept of consent can be taught from very young. My DD is 4 and from as soon as she understood I taught her that her body is hers and people should respect it, to the point if I'm tickling her and she says "no stop it", it's in a giggly way, but I do stop, because I want her to know her voice is important. In fact I probably remind her, in some way, nearly every day that people shouldn't do things to other people when they ask us not to, I'll be doing the same with my son.

When he's older he'll learn that he is afforded things that others (such as women and POC) aren't, by virtue of being male, that he's far safer as a male than women - and that he shouldn't exasperate that problem for women and should challenge it when he sees women being discriminated against.

I know some posters will accuse me of being a terrible mother and treating him like he's guilty of something, but meh. I'd like to see, by the time mine are adults, those statistics become much lower and it ain't gonna fix itself is it.

Its clear to me there willing always be predators after young girls.what I finding appalling is why after everything that has fiberglass object from Cyril Smith days are children's in homes still not projected.

It's in the papers most days that there's a woman who's taken advantage of a child, whether it's a teacher or parent known to the child

If all the trials for crimes against women were in the papers they'd have no space for anything else. The press and local press select to publish cases with something that is interesting and different, and women abusing boys or men is rare and therefore likely to get it the paper. It's not indicative of the proportion of women who abuse.

Yes women do it too. But for the most part the problem is men.

Again, 96% of sexual offenders are male. Someone on a thread the other day had a good analogy. It's like a firefighter looking at a burning building and tackling the flower patch outside first (whilst shouting "these bastard flowers are just as bad" added for tongue in cheek-ness)

I also find it irritating as fuck that people whinge NAMALT until it's Asian men then they foaming at the mouth with rage.

The reason why race is relevant in these cases is because they were allowed to get away with it for ages because people were too scared to do anything about it because of their race. Victims and their familie turned to the authorities (police and social services) for help but were turned away and left with no protection. It's not comparable to cases like Adam Johnson because there's no suggestion that institutional bias led to the abuse being ignored or facilitated. The allegations against him were taken seriously after one or two incidents whereas in cases like Rotherham they continued for decades.

If you want to find comparable with white men you have to go back 30, 40 years to the period where rich white men like Jimmy Savile were allowed to abuse because at that point the authorities felt wealthy white men were an untouchable group in much the same way Asian men were treated in the 90s to early 10s.

Protesting over that is somewhat shutting the stable door after the horse had bolted as these gangs are now a recognised problem which is taken seriously.

But I think a lot of the anger is from the authorities ignoring it because of race rather than actually because of the race of the perpetrators IYSWIM. After all, there was similar anger over the Savile case etc.

children in homes still not projected.

Part of the problem is that it's often partly themselves that they need protecting from and it's currently very hard for SS (or parents) to do that. If children choose to go to people who are exploiting them it's difficult because they can't physically stop them or lock them up. And they're often unwilling to give evidence against the groomers so it can be hard to gather the evidence to allow immediate arrest.

I should also say, I know one of the Rotherham victims and their family well. She was not in care and many of the other victims weren't. The one I know had a professional parent and were middle class. They had problems. Many others were similarly from loving families but simply they couldn't stop it because they just didn't have the support available that they should have done. E.g. If they rang the police the police would do nothing.

There is a very real problems of white males in positions of power grouping together to abuse vulnerable girls in this country too. Just they don't get caught.

I am the victim of one group that included my own (social worker) mother and white male social workers, police and doctors.

It suits these groups very well when only the Asian groups come to light.