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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To ask what has gone wrong in the UK

551 replies

Mumof56 · 10/08/2017 01:29

I'm talking about the latest sex grooming case in Newcastle. It's the seventh large scale sex gang scandal to hit the UK after cases from towns including Rotherham, Rochdale, Oxford and Bristol

I have seen nothing on mumsnet about this (although maybe I've missed it). This is shocking and outrageous. How has this been allowed to happen in so many areas? What is the solution?

This is "rape culture". Where are the (peaceful) protests and the show of support for these girls?

OP posts:
MumNeedsTea · 11/08/2017 21:29

I am Indian and I find it absolutely disgusting that some of the men involved are Indians! I haven't read the entire thread, but having discussed this with various friends (Indian and others), I believe this stems from a cultural thinking that views some women as 'worthless'. In case of Indians and some other Asian communities, white women are considered 'trash'.. A word I have heard being used in the past by Indian men AngryAngry
They will date and sleep with white women, but cannot marry them as they are not 'good' girls. This horrendous news is an extension of this vile thinking!

In fact, even back in India, we sometimes see this attitude towards city girls. The metropolitan cities in India are to some extent progressive..i.e. women in these cities are independent, live alone, go out for a drink, have boyfriends.. A lot of men in these cities support the right of women to do what they want. However, there are always men who view these women as easy targets and would never even consider a serious relationship with them Angry

This is definitely a cultural issue. When these people migrate to UK, it is the responsibility of the families and the communities to make sure they integrate well... This is not something the government can help with. This has to come from within the community! In case of muslim men, from what I understand, the word of their local clergy is very important. So why aren't the locals from their community coming forward and condemning these vile acts!?!

I know British men also prey on young girls, but it all goes back to how they are brought up. And in case of these Indians and Pakistanis, they have been brought up to believe women are lesser than men. If any of these men are not British citizens, then I truly believe that they should be sent back to where they came from. The UK has it's own set of values and if you cannot respect them and live by them then you should not be living here! I know some people may find this attitude extreme, but what happened to these girls is so wrong that maybe an extreme action is required!

Terfing · 11/08/2017 21:33

Let's not forget though: these men are abusers and are/were probably abusing women in their own cultures too. I think there are many more victims in these stories than just the white girls, sadly. Sad

Gingernaut · 11/08/2017 21:37

Very occasionally, there are stories

Cardiff Koran teacher jailed for child sex abuse

They are very rare, though.

MumsTheWordYouKnow · 11/08/2017 21:39

I totally agree mumneedstea and whilst these clergy do not condemn it is not going to change, the complicated thing is in a way they can't support these women who are not from their society and are not 'modest' ie they are not leading a 'good life' according to their beliefs and that in itself tells these dirty men they are less important therefore not to be respected as they are not equal to their own virtuous women. I'm sorry to say this but I also feel the headscarf vs no headcarf doesn't actually help matters with this.

MumsTheWordYouKnow · 11/08/2017 21:40

I also feel that how women behave and dress and blame culture are also a real problem. It is very easy to blame the women and suggest she asked for it.

OlennasWimple · 11/08/2017 22:00

What happened to "We believe you" when posters share their experiences on this thread...? Hmm

One answer to the question "where do boys learn this stuff?" is that some mosques and madrassahs teach boys that white girls are worth no more than a lollipop discarded on the floor, which led to this paedophile being let off a prison sentence for the statutory rape of a 13 year old girl, because the defence persuaded the judge that he genuinely didn't know any better. The defendent being a British Asian man who had lived in the UK all his life. Angry

BertrandRussell · 11/08/2017 22:03

So- what do we do about it? Apart from completely overhauling the way we protect vulnerable children, obviously. What do we do to stop the predators?

Lloyd45 · 11/08/2017 22:16

Did you see my thread Bertrand about Stacy? Not only did it happen to me but you poohed poohed it!!!!!

MumsTheWordYouKnow · 11/08/2017 22:19

I think the way to deal with this is very harsh sentencing for anyone caught. Life sentences for many of these crimes. Having operations and taking medication to castrate them.

MumsTheWordYouKnow · 11/08/2017 22:20

Till women no longer feel threatened and can go out safely like men can.

SomethingOnce · 11/08/2017 22:22

What happened to "We believe you" when posters share their experiences on this thread...?

Quite.

The liberal left has got in quite a tangle, leading to a good deal of inconsistency.

woodhill · 11/08/2017 22:25

Thanks mumneedstea, well said

BertrandRussell · 11/08/2017 22:30

Did you see my thread Bertrand about Stacy? Not only did it happen to me but you poohed poohed it!!!!!"

Sorry?

BertrandRussell · 11/08/2017 22:32

"Having operations and taking medication to castrate them."

Learning from the extremists there.....

MumNeedsTea · 11/08/2017 22:35

Olennas reading that article literally made my blood boil Angry

How could the judge let him get away?! He's 18 and hence an adult who should be held responsible for his actions! If he really wasn't aware of the laws then the school is to be blamed! I don't want to mention my views on how such religious school should be monitored as that's going to be a thread in itself. And if this boy was attending mosques, then surely he must have been taught how sex before marriage is wrong and is a straight ticket to hell Hmm

woodhill · 11/08/2017 22:40

Unbelievable. How would he feel if someone did that to his younger female sibling.

MumNeedsTea · 11/08/2017 22:45

woodhill I wouldn't be surprised if they would harm the girl in that case! That's why there are so many cases of honour killings in India!
Some people have a warped definition of what constitutes as honour Sad

Winebomb · 11/08/2017 23:07

I got part way through the comments before I felt the over whelming need to comment myself.

I grew up in a naice part of Dewsbury.

The same town where Shannon Matthews was kidnapped by her parents, the same place where the London bombers preached at the super mosque that has been built here. The same place where as a teenager to my early twenties (before I moved away) I was sexually harassed on a daily basis, literally daily, by Asian men. To a point at the tender age of 17 I wrote an email to Shahid Malik, the local MP, saying there was a problem in the community. I didn't even get an acknowledgement, let alone response.

Asian men In my area have:

Driven up on the pavement in their cars blocking me from walking away. Asking if I will give them blow jobs and the like.

Called me a white slut for ignoring their cries to come over to "talk"

Followed me in my car, shouting white racist anti women slurs.

The worst evening, I was doing the five minute walk from the train station to the bus at the age of 17, I was stopped 6 times on the way by Asian men, asking for sexual favours, wanting me to get in the car and or all of the above.

Two older Asian men have flashed me, as in one caught me off gaurd on the way home from school, shouted "oi" I turned around and saw a mans penis. I was 12.

The second time a man in a suit in a nice family car pulled over and asked for directions, as I got closer I saw he was clearly (as in not wearing anything from the waist down) was pleasuring him self.

It ABSOLUTELY has to do with culture. If black people where doing this shit on London it would be gang crime. There is a nice tidy label for that, that we rightly or wrongly accept.

For people in their literally white towers, where your only experience is meeting "moderate muslims" on a occasion, stop fucking having an opinion on the matter, because it doesn't effect you. Visit places like Dewsbury, Bradford and Huddersfield. Walk the streets as a white wonton alone. And then tell me there is not a problem

OlennasWimple · 11/08/2017 23:09

Flowers winebomb

Lloyd45 · 11/08/2017 23:12

I agree winenomb walk down a certain street in Luton they will soon change there mind, until you experience it you have no idea

Winebomb · 11/08/2017 23:22

*wonton = women

Thanks for the people who have replied to my last post positively, I still live in the West Yorkshire area.

There are places where I wouldn't go in the day time, let alone night time, for genuine fear of harassment, and how this could escalate to actual sexual assault.

THERE ABSOLUTELY needs to be more findings/research/funding into to the south Asian community and how families have intergrated into British society.

I was just reading today on the BBC how south Asian women are dying in this country prematurely from breast cancer. They keep their illness from people as they see that their children won't find partners to marry. Or the community will say the devil is paying the women back. Apparently a women only saought help when her breast was rotten.

I will post the link.

Justanotherlurker · 11/08/2017 23:22

So- what do we do about it? Apart from completely overhauling the way we protect vulnerable children, obviously. What do we do to stop the predators?

Well long term education helps, but everyone of all stripes wants quick fixes so that is a background task.

We need to shine a light on not only cultures that think white children are easy prey but to the police and others in a position of trust. If there is a "fear of appearing racist" we need to stamp it out.

IMO the best we can do is increase our defence.

But I don't see a workable solution where we start with the catchment of a certain demographic (using OP as an example) that won't lead to problems of false positives and discrimination which leads to negative outcomes.

If we focus on defence we can cross the divide of the people who just want an ethnic slanging match and get people of all walks of life who actually care about prevention to chip in with reporting questionable situations with government support and investment to.back it up.

Also, without coming across to UKIP-Y, I think cultural education education would help, but I'm not sure where to start, as there are too many people entrenched on the extremes (left and right)

Puzzledandpissedoff · 11/08/2017 23:25

Thank you for your insightful and very interesting post, MumNeedsTea

I'm especially interested in your comments about community condemnation and sending any attackers who are not British citizens "back where they came from". Specifically, since you mentioned you're an Indian lady, I'm waiting to see if these will bring the howls of outrage which would most certainly result on here, had they been made by a non asian

Winebomb · 11/08/2017 23:25

www.google.co.uk/amp/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/health-40802527

This makes a horrible read

Lloyd45 · 11/08/2017 23:30

It's not about white children, it's about girls and women. Men from these communities think femsles are lower than a worm, to be used and abused. Women from these communities do not have a voice. Forced marriages and honour killings says at all. We need to have a voice for all women to change things, whatever colour or race or religion