To ask what has gone wrong in the UK

[Mumof56]

I'm talking about the latest sex grooming case in Newcastle. It's the seventh large scale sex gang scandal to hit the UK after cases from towns including Rotherham, Rochdale, Oxford and Bristol

I have seen nothing on mumsnet about this (although maybe I've missed it). This is shocking and outrageous. How has this been allowed to happen in so many areas? What is the solution?

This is "rape culture". Where are the (peaceful) protests and the show of support for these girls?

The perpetrators religion? If they were religious at all, they wouldn't be abusing children.
There are plenty of factors that lead them to do what they did but I wouldn't say religion was one.

You're more than welcome, VanHalen, and thank you too for taking my modest ideas in the way they were meant, rather than throwing around baseless accusations of racism as so many on here unfortunately do

More good ideas, too, from ChesGuitarra with the points about removing religious leaders from the House of Lords, banning any form of religious governance and following the example of Nottinghamshire police to treat the harassment of women as a hate crime - I think all of those are excellent

"I don't know a solution, but I think there should be a more visible demonstration"

Like what Mumof56? Like the sort that has seen millions of us slaughtered in the past couple of centuries - targeted in pretty much the same ways? Heat is only off us now because they realise they've taken it a bit too far but we know they'll treat us like dirt again once they get rid of whoever they are calling the enemy now.

The rot is right at the top within Western society and every man and his dog knows it.

Let's call anyone who tries to have a conversation about it racists.

Well, the problem is that so many of these conversations do attract racists, like catnip and rapidly turn into conversations about how awful it is that these brown men have come over here and something must be done because they are different and bad^ and white British men never abuse children at all.

I'd also have a lot more time for these conversations if they were started by people who gave a damn about abused or looked after children at any other point in time.

Well, the problem is that so many of these conversations do attract racists, like catnip and rapidly turn into conversations about how awful it is that these brown men have come over here and ^something must be done because they are different and bad and white British men never abuse children at all.

And that's half the problem, yes, this type of conversation does attract racists, but the label is also used as a broad brush to people who are not sticking to within the confines of the "accepted narrative", as has been seen on this thread.

I have never heard anyone say anything resembling the sort of implication that "good old days, where no one raped anyone", the problem is that unfortunately it was the right who was highlighting this with the "muslamic ray guns" and many are more afraid of admitting they where right (stopped clock, and other massive contributing factors involved obv) that people would rather talk about the IRA, crusades or whatever rather than tackle a specific issue head on.

It's not mutually exclusive to want to tackle the issue on multiple fronts, but there is a recent statistic that keeps appearing with regards to culture, and not just in the UK either, but some people would rather pretend that it's normal.

So you have the extremes at both sides.

"like a pp who doubted one of the abusers involvement, because she was a woman"

She didn't. She pointed out that the woman you are referring to was a teenager herself. And therefore unlikely to be a prime mover in the situation.

You can't get away from the fact that Pakistan and Afghanistan have a lower perception of girls and women from these countries than the UK, it's a fact. The laws are set up to make sure women don't have any freedom. We do have tackle this. It's not a Muslim thing either it is where and how you are brought up. I have Muslim friends and they are very respectful to their wives and daughters. I also have an Indian friend who doesn't want to take his wife and daughter back to India as it doesn't feel safe for females

So what is this phenomenon - "Asian grooming gangs"?

These gangs exist in many towns and cities.

Many men from such gangs have been prosecuted and sent down.

Are we able to explore now what this phenomenon is all about?

I work with vulnerable adults, we recently had targetted training from our children's services about how to spot potential perpetrators (we never come into contact with kids).

The first part of the training was to emphasise that this is not a race thing. We have had convictions for grooming in our area and they have all been white. We don't even have any sort of non-white community. The social workers delivering the training were tearing their hair out because people (especially parents) think this is an "Asain" thing and aren't alert to the fact that it can actually be a 29-year-old white man who does this stuff.

Another interesting thing was the fact that a lot of the kids involved aren't "typically" vulnerable. That is to say they are not on SS radar prior to being flagged as victims of street grooming.

It is hard to deny that there is a problem wth 'Asian grooming rings' right now in towns with high Asian populations.

However there is a white / black / everything grooming problem all over the Uk and all over the world.

The catholic church had done more in the way of perpetuating and coving up members involvement in child abuse than any other organisation.

Many people are groomed by young white men.

It's a societal problem the world over of women being treated as lesser human beings and men thinking they deserve whatever they want.

To those of you engaging in whataboutry?Are rapists not responsible for their own actions?

@Bert the court's and people who investigated this decided it was not "unlikely" as you claim

@user Sorry to hear you were slaughtered

For someone who appears to want to put women front and centre as perpetrators of sexual abuse and rape, the accusation of "whataboutery" is a bit rich......

@Bert

Have you changed the whataboutery now to personal abuse?

Is the some read on you can't discuss the topic at hand?

*reason

Why are you excusing a person who was trafficking children?

in other words a totally secular state where religion would be purely a private matter of choice, rather than a handle on which to peg expectations

Religion shouldn't have any more sway in the public space than any other hobby in which people are (over)invested. Reason and evidence ought to inform what we collectively do.

"@Bert

Have you changed the whataboutery now to personal abuse?

Is the some read on you can't discuss the topic at hand?"

You have a strange definition of personal abuse!

Frankly, I'm not actually completely sure what the topic in hand is. it seems a bit slippery....

I wonder if the abuse may occur when the perpetrators are in situations where they cannot have relaxed relationships with women e.g. Catholic Church - celibate priest or where an arranged marriage is the norm and there is no informal socialising with the opposite sex.

"Why are you excusing a person who was trafficking children?"

I'm not.

I wonder if anyone will ever be tried for the Westminster abuse scandal. I doubt it, evidence is lost and the victims are scared to come forward, just look at how troublesome it's been trying to drag that into the light. Abuse by white powerful men rarely comes to light, they often retain positions of power.

I wonder if the abuse may occur when the perpetrators are in situations where they cannot have relaxed relationships with women

Yes, I definitely think this can be a factor and there's also the point that challenges can upset the mindset of those who are used to such a culture

Forgive me mentioning something which may not be relevant, but I'm always reminded of a a televised interview with Cormac Murphy O'Connor years ago. The sheer loathing which blazed from his eyes at the woman who presumed to question him abuse priestly abuse - and this from a supposed man of God - is something which will never leave me

Much the same happened when I discussed muslim terrorism with a colleague who I'd previously believed to be utterly moderate. Enraged by even the most gentle observations, he snapped that "muslims don't need to do anything - we can destroy the west any time we want"

I'd obviously like to believe that these two men are completely atypical, but the effect their zealotry had on their mindsets perhaps shows why it's so important to keep religion out of any kind of public sphere and respect it as a purely personal choice

I don't think religion comes into this, in fact if these perpetrators were practitioners of their religions they would not have done anything so vile.

I read a moving account of a Muslim female who's husband was sleeping with prostutes. It was considered her fault for not being a good enough wife, he even gave her sexually transmitted disease

She was banished from her village and community

Culture has a huge bearing on these cases

If you go into most town centres you will find groups of Asian men in cars harrassing young white girls. My own daughter has been a victim of this. They think all white girls are sluts, and treat woman in general appallingly. They get away with it because of the cancer that is eating away at our society. The cancer of political correctness........

Definitely Atenco but it's the man made traditions that cause the problem.

It's not biblical for the priests to be celibate or unmarried.

puzzled that is scary about the discussion you had and TBH I think it may be the case in 100 years due to numbers in Europe.

Maybe so DamnDe, but it has hardly been easy for these abusive gangs to be brought to justice. You seem to be implying that police are happy to focus on asian men but not white men. Is that right?