To ask what has gone wrong in the UK

[Mumof56]

I'm talking about the latest sex grooming case in Newcastle. It's the seventh large scale sex gang scandal to hit the UK after cases from towns including Rotherham, Rochdale, Oxford and Bristol

I have seen nothing on mumsnet about this (although maybe I've missed it). This is shocking and outrageous. How has this been allowed to happen in so many areas? What is the solution?

This is "rape culture". Where are the (peaceful) protests and the show of support for these girls?

Lala totally agree with you a 100% we all have our part to play, as women who bring up children we should be teaching our boys women are equal and should be respected, we should be teaching our girls they are as equal as men. Education is key. All women should have access to free birth control and no woman should be called slag, slut or any other derogatory term for a female, we are all human beings

Perhaps the op missed threads like

They're not about these cases. Did you link the wrong thing?

No, it was just a quick way of demonstrating how common sexual crimes and violence against women and girls is in the UK, and the latter link has numerous women sharing their experiences from various times over the last few decades.

as women who bring up children we should be teaching our boys women are equal and should be respected, we should be teaching our girls they are as equal as men

I agree, but surely we have to face the fact that, among some communities, such messages just aren't currently possible; even if a mother wished to teach her children these important truths it simply wouldn't be tolerated and might even bring her into danger

How we address this may well be absolutely key

That said, it's not going to be easy for women to contribute if they're from a culture where their views count for little, especially if there's a reluctance - a fear, even - about speaking out because criticising men risks them being ostracised by their community

I think that puts more onus on the rest of us who live without extra pressure and weight.

If I, as a white non-religious woman who is seen/viewed/accepted as equal in my home and family, bring my son up to be a decent person then he in turn becomes one of the 'not all men' (for want of a much better phrase) and the more of those men there are then the more of a minority the men who view women so lowly will become.

It think it's perhaps a bit like how it used to be more socially acceptable to be racist. Slowly, but surely it became unacceptable (although there is still work to be done) and that makes it easier for individual people to stand up and say "actually, no, that's not acceptable".

There needs to be more good men who abhor violence against women and the likes before the minority is small enough that it will be dealt with more. And mothers, sisters and wives have a part to play in creating more of them.

A very valid point, lyra

I agree, but surely we have to face the fact that, among some communities, such messages just aren't currently possible; even if a mother wished to teach her children these important truths it simply wouldn't be tolerated and might even bring her into danger
Your sensible posts will be drowned out by 'all men are the problem'.
I honestly don't understand.

I agree with lalalalyra that we need to address this as parents from the word go. Gender stereotyping plays its part and every time I hear "oh they're just being boys" it makes me despair - such comments lead to boys thinking they are better than girls and allowed to get away with certain things which girls can't. I think the research shows that by age 5 or 6 girls view boys to be stronger than them and more important. We need to challenge this!

I would also say that with reference to children in care and neglectful homes being vulnerable - without significantly increased funding of social care and mental health, this is only going to get worse. Our children's mental health is in dire crisis and services can't cope. Children will seek validation and self medicate and both place vulnerable young people in risky situations.

what is not 'sensible' about tackling male violence against women and endemic misogyny on all fronts exactly? Nothing at all but it's nothing to do with the OP.

This is happening across cultures and across the socio-economic spectrum.

Note the slavery thread.

The general feeling seems that society has already 'othered' the members of these gangs.

They are not us. They are racist. They are mainly Pakistani. They are Muslim. We are not.

As long as there is that NAMALT attitude, as long as these vulnerable children are ignored, despised and allowed to fall out of the bottom of every safety net society is supposed to provide, as long as there are handmaids like Carolann Gallon to aid the abusers, then it will all carry on as before.

You who are trying to say this is not a race issue. It actually is in this case.

I'm very surprised that Leicester hasn't been mentioned. But there again they have a very slick MP whose nickname is Vaseline. There is a huge backhand/bribe , call it what you will culture.
Leicester, was of course, linked to Janner.

I honestly don't think it's that people are trying to avoid answering you, VanHalen - more, perhaps, that we all realise there aren't any easy answers. FWIW I agree with your points about the "sex based hierarchy", but what to do about it is complex

If I could make a modest suggestion, though - and given that it seems agreed that education is key - I'd personally like to see all religious influences removed from education, which might do at least something to lessen the misogyny which so many encourage

I'd also favour an absolute separation of church and state and a complete ban on religious influence in judicial proceedings of any type ... in other words a totally secular state where religion would be purely a private matter of choice, rather than a handle on which to peg expectations

No doubt others will have their own ideas, but anyway that's my two penn'orth to be going on with

The people whose actions you're trying to minimise have no respect for you at all.

What they are getting at, I strongly suspect, is that "it's really Brown People's Fault and that this would never have happened in the good old days when wonderful British culture hadn't been polluted by Those Foreign Ways" - in most cases, that they have just googled and quoted out of context or read in the DM.

Look at women in the hundreds of years of majority British culture gone by and listen to their lives and experiences tell you how very, very wrong you are.

It's always been here and that's a fact you can have for free.

yrs, once-upon-a-time a bona fide history student

It's always been here and that's a fact you can have for free

Oh well that's ok then. Let's call anyone who tries to have a conversation about it racists.

Carry on business as usual.

I agree with Puzzled that I think it's because it's a difficult problem with no easy solution. I also think her/his suggestion of removing religious influences is the way forward. I would abolish faith schools completely, remove religious leaders from the House of Lords and ban any form of religious governance. Religion imho helps with this "othering" and all religions contain both hierarchy and pervasive misogyny.

I would also like to see police forces across the UK, follow the example of Nottinghamshire police and treat the harassment of women as a hate crime. I have never understood why attacking someone because of their race/sexuality, or religion can be treated as a hate crime but attacking them for their gender is not.

I agree with Puzzled that I think it's because it's a difficult problem with no easy solution. I also think her/his suggestion of removing religious influences is the way forward. I would abolish faith schools completely, remove religious leaders from the House of Lords and ban any form of religious governance. Religion imho helps with this "othering" and all religions contain both hierarchy and pervasive misogyny.

It'd certainly be a start.

What do you consider to be a sensible solution to this matter?

I don't know a solution, but I think there should be a more visible demonstrations . It can't even be discussed what is wrong without being called racists.I'd like people to have a discussion about it without the manic "sure all men are rapists, what can you do' or "you don't like brown people" or defending and apologising for these peoples actions (like a pp who doubted one of the abusers involvement, because she was a woman). It's all a form of shutting down discussion and only enables it to continue, as the Labour mp said.

Some posters really need to take a long hard look at the whataboutery in this discussion. The IRA etc
and ask themselves why the can't bring themselves to address the situation at hand.

Do you think their religion is a contributing factor in their actions?