Is this accepted now? Young children and electronics on public transport.

[AnneGrommit]

The last few times I've been on a train (not in quiet coach) and quite often on the bus I've had my peace disturbed by toddlers with phones/tablets either playing noisy games on them or watching programmes. When I've asked parents to rein them in I've been invariably met with either passive aggressive remarks about not liking children (I have three myself) or outright hostility and a statement along the lines of "it keeps them quiet". No, it doesn't. It stops them from pestering you but it's far from quiet. AIBU or is this an accepted "thing" now? Because it's fucking annoying.

YouTheCat I know that you have said it doesn't need to be loud (which I agree with) but there are a few who have said no noise at all.

still waiting spikey. it wasn't true, was it?

Lots of us who are against selfish behaviour have children with additional needs.
People doing whatever they want because they are selfish make it harder for us to gain acceptance for our childs needs, because people think we are just like them.

From the first few pages there are quite a few posts saying low volume is not acceptable, and other posts saying this even applies to children with special needs:

'everyone is sitting there seething at you, If she won't wear headphones, put your device on mute'

In response to 'My son won't wear headphones due to his disability':
'If it's on low, it's still too loud if other people can hear it. Turn the thing off or mute it if he can't wear headphones. Nobody needs to listen to electronic noise on public transport. It is always selfish to subject other people to your electronic noise'

'No. It shouldn't be common behaviour. No excuse for it. SN included.'

'Playing electronic devices without headphones, no matter how low the volume it like graffitti or dropping litter - essentially just a 'fuck you' from entitled idiots.' - lucydogz

I like Australian trains. They have a quiet carriage at the front and back of each 4 car train - I sit in those. Occasionally some dickhead(s) will flout the restrictions on noise in these carriages, but someone usually puts them straight!

And I'm NOT talking about children with SN - they just sit in the other carriages. Carriages in Australia (NSW anyway) are a lot bigger than in the UK (double deckers)

1st - does the post refer to SN?
2nd and 3rd - fair enough you're right, but I still think 2 posts in 28 pages is a very low number.
4th - nothing to do with SN. I posted it and I still stand by it. Or does every statement related to anti-social behaviour have to come with a disclaimer to say that you don't mean people with SN?

I'm not helping myself here, by trying to be succinct.

What I mean is, most people who need/want to make noise, choose NOT to sit in the quiet carriages because they know it's not really acceptable to be noisy in there. THe occasional ones who DO make noise in the quiet carriages are usually dickheads.

They have quiet carriages in the UK as well, but it's only on trains going long distances, really. 'Quiet' in this case only refers to electronic devices - so normal human noise is supposed to be fine. In a packed train I would sit on the floor with my toddler rather than go in the quiet carriage, though.

lucy, as I said in he first bit of the post, I was including stuff relating to SN, and also that no one is saying low level noise is unacceptable. Another poster said this, fair enough you thought I was only replying to you.

I actually didn't mean to leave your name on there, it was a copy and paste fail where I'd put the names at the end so I didn't run 2 people's posts together. I apologise if this came off as a bit 'ner ner ner, caught you out' wasn't intended at all.

I don't accept it - it's so selfish. Headphones, or if no headphones available, mute.

I've paid my dues with Peppa Pig and don't feel the need to be subjected to that again.

Our train is a long-distance one as well, 2h to Sydney. But the people are pretty militant about the quiet aspect of it - no loud conversations, no music that can be heard outside of headphones, no electronic noise, no phones. People who wish to chat are asked to move to other carriages - by the person on the tannoy!

Also, forgot to mention, I didn't look through all pages as there are so many, I just scanned through the first bit and picked posts that said it in easily quotable even chunks.

that's OK. We all do stuff like that in the heat of the moment FWIW I do think low level tech noise is unnacceptable as well.

Thumb - I think that would probably be a better system, although on a busy train it might not work as you couldn't have someone with no seat because they have a baby who may cry. At the moment people do get annoyed with people chatting in the quiet coach, and I've seen lots of 'can't believe someone has brought a baby into the quiet coach' tweets, but it really is only a 'no phone' carriage here. At least in the corridor there's room for a toddle about!

zzzzz they certainly do have some rigid thinking and can't see that talking about being considerate and having good manners doesn't go well with calling people twats, fuckers, arses etc. Child with PeppaPig playing on a low volume or grown adults calling people names and swearing, which one is the rude, entitled person?

Do you have problems with basic comprehension?

They are both rude and entitled, granny. (The child isn't rude or entitled, but the parents would be.)

The OP was specifically complaining about people who weren't in the quiet coach.

On British trains, well at least on the site I use, you don't get to choose quiet or non quiet coach. I always think it is strange that they allocate seats to children in the non quiet coach. It might have changed as it is some years since I booked seats when travelling with children. I remember years ago Virgin used to have child friendly coaches which seems like a good idea. Don't know if they still do.

ArcheryAnnie, it is a matter of opinion. I, and many others on here, don't think it is rude or entitled if the volume is reasonable. In fact some of us think it is preferable to some other noises you hear on trains.

look granny. This forum is AIBU. On mumsnet. People are often quite rude to each other here, especially if they feel posters are spectacularly not getting the point. But you have a choice about being on here don't you?
Real life is different. If I don't like tech music, I shouldn't have to put up with it, or have to get off the bus, or not use public transport. You can get off MN.

Yes, granny, and my opinion is that it is very rude and entitled to subject others to electronic noises from your children's devices.

I find it impossible to work, read or sleep on a train with Peppa Pig doing her thing a couple of seats away. Ordinary talking by actual humans I don't find distracting at all. Why should my journeys be made difficult because someone doesn't want to find something else to do with their child?

lucy - honestly wasn't intentional, but I deserve that wink face as I'm actually paid to edit copy, so should know better to check my work!

Your opinion is of course valid. I'm sure you've weighed up the alternatives so fair enough that you've come down on that side. I've done the same and think there are some situations where low level tablet noise is better than the alternative in my case, with a a toddler with no disabilities. I've never used a tablet or my phone with low sound on in public, but I will take the tablet just in case on our upcoming flight. I won't be using it right away (I'd be stupid to use up my pretty much guaranteed distraction if not needed) and would reserve it for the possibility that my toddler becomes upset about not being able to move around - and starts throwing herself about in a dangerous way. I know there may well be some people who are annoyed by this, however, given the relative sound levels we're talking about (lowest level tablet vs full on scared and upset screaming and flailing) I reckon the latter will annoy more people, so it's a utilitarian choice. I've never actually experienced one of these before - always manages to cut it short with cuddles and other distractions, but I think on a plane it's best to be prepared as the possibility of earache and not being able to get up and move around may strike at the same time.

Others will disagree with me, but in the case of things that aren't actually prohibited - we all have to cope with the fact that we will consider different things acceptable/unacceptable. I'm not saying that there aren't any selfish arseholes in the world, though. Some people won't have given it any thought, but many posters have thought about it, and think that noise is fine under some circumstances.