To ask what constitutes a 'spirited child'?

[malificent7]

My dd is lovely but she is what I would call 'spirited.'
She is definitely not the obedient type. I don't think that blind obedience is a god trait but she often does the opposite to what I would like or point blank refuses to cooperate. She will make a fuss if I ask her to help tidy up for example.
She is very demanding and wants my attention. She is a diva and every little scratch is a major catastrophe.
She is boisterous and likes to dance around and throw herself at me.
She loves to play pranks and has a wicked sense of humour.
At the moment she is prone to anxiety and is very clingy but I am working with her to get over this.
She is bloody stubborn, bossy and likes to be in control.
I love her to bits but bloody hell, I am exhausted and need a break...which she is reluctant to give to me due to anxiety.
She will not let me sit in peace and demands my attention if she senses I am still. We argue a lot but also have lovely, cuddly times.
She is 9. So is she spirited or is this normal? Any tips would be useful.

Brattish behaviour not beat fish!

OP as I read your first post I assumed your DD was 3 or maybe even 4. I was very surprised to read that she's 9. Most 9yo are not like this. If she's not rude and badly behaved with other people then clearly it's down the way you've parented her.
I always cringe when a parent says their child has a wicked sense of humour as unfailingly this means they're a pain in the arse.

"Are their spirited adults too? Are prisons full of spirited adults?"

Actually yes.
Children described as spirited by their parents (and naughty, brats and little shits by some ) often have an as yet undiagnosed disability, like ASD, ADHD, things like that that you can't easily see, which leads to nasty judgement from those who have little understanding.
So yes, of course adults can be like this, or at least, they can have these conditions which (if undiagnosed and unsupported) can lead to self medication (drugs, alcohol), severe lack of self esteem, mental health issues etc. I can assure you it's not a barrel of laughs.
There are estimates of a very high proportion of young prisoners, young offenders etc having undiagnosed (and therefore unsupported) disabilities which leads to risky and anti social behaviour.

OP, you mention attachment disorder, but unless there has been serious neglect, this is very unlikely, although it is the diagnosis du jour and used with far more frequency when various experts don't have enough experience to identify autism and ADHD, coupled with them using documents with tick boxes which are as reliable and ambiguous as tarot cards and subject to individual opinion.
Someone mentioned reading The Explosive Child by Ross Greene, this is an excellent book and may give you an insight that she's not acting out of naughtiness or lack of discipline, it is more likely to be a result of her neurology, even if there is no diagnosis to be had.
You could also look up PDA parenting methods, as these can really help. If you look at The PDA society website there's some information there about strategies, even if you don't think PDA is an issue, the strategies can help children who don't naturally fit in with current "good parenting" techniques.

Disordered, your poor SIL.
Her life so far is typical of an adult with undiagnosed ASD or ADHD.
Sounds like people surrounding her, instead of loving her and trying to help her, have judged her and assumed she's not trying hard enough and she's now considered a failure.
How fucking sad for her. And you think it's ok to use her as a lesson to all those feckless parents out there? Fucking hell!

I was forty when I was diagnosed with ASD, very few friends, had only worked for family, very low self esteem, mental health issues which can lead to destructive and isolating behaviour.
It has changed my life, and means that even if some people are still judging me as crap and pointless (and some people are still judging me), I have more friends, I know I can find strategies that help me get through difficult stuff. Pity I went through my first forty years thinking I was shit really.

I know MANY 9 year olds that could be described as "spirited", mine & many of his classmates included, & I am proud of that crazy little kid!!
I think the fact that your daughter knows how to behave with other people is actually an indiciation that you are doing it right & I think it's horrendous that other parents think it's ok to tell you you're doing a bad job!!
My son is a hectic, energetic boy. He is easily distracted & at times highly emotional - whether it's tears, tantrums, excitement...
I do have to be consistent with him & he knows what behaviours I find acceptable & what will earn him a consequence. Sometimes it's a deterrent & sometimes it's not. That doesn't make him a feral child as some of the delightful posters above have stated! After an event he can usually understand why he has lost a privaledge but at the time he undoubtedly believes that I am the worst, most unfair parent in the world!
Of course he pushes his boundaries further with me than with other people, me & our home are his safe space & he is still learning how to be an adult!
I choose my battles with him & I try & let him make his own decisions(as long as it wouldn't be dangerous or cause him or others harm!) so he can understand the natural consequences of his behaviour.
He does not have ADHD, ADD or any other condition that might affect his behaviour. He is just an immature child who isn't as advanced as some of his peers & who still has plenty of time left to mature.
You are doing a good job! You can take your girl out in public & she can behave amazingly! That's half the battle!!

So sorry op, my phone doesn't always show the full thread so I posted without reading your updates, so I too hate jumped on the "parenting" bandwagon, I think the title and original op sounds as if you find her behaviour rather endearing which is why people have been so harsh. I see now though that you are struggling and seeking advice and I feel bad you've been given such a hard time.
As a first port of call I would still involve the school as they may be able to refer you to supportive services. If you parent her alone and are exhausted then it may be difficult to be as consistent as you need with a strong personality.
I wonder if there's a way you could arrange a bit of me time? Would grandparents or friends take her for a weekend to give you a chance to rest and regroup.
Sorry you're feeling a bit rubbish op, parenting's tough 💐

My word there are a lot of judgy Knicks in here arnt there, and talk about parent bashing and absent a little girl to prison already!!!

The term highly spirited means energetic, creative, fun.....id be a bit gutted if my children wernt like this some of the time. It is a quality to embrace. Totally get she is hard work atm but all the positive posters are totally right. As far as I've seen the sensible , quiet kids in my children's classes have ben actually the sneakiest, naughtiest deep down, just takes longer for parents to see

CloudPerson I am sorry about your situation but my sil's life is one of her own making. She was very indulged as a child and certain behaviours were not called out on. She has grown up to be spoilt, rude and incredibly spiteful and malicious if she doesn't get her own way. My son has ASD and my nephew has ADHD and I know that she doesn't have those traits. People with genuine SEN behaviours are done a disservice by people like my SIL. She has caused many problems in my dh's family because she is rude & has no respect for others.

OP you are asking for advice that you clearly don't want to hear.
Of course your daughter isn't "bad" but she is a product of her upbringing.
She is a child and needs the safety of consistent boundaries/parenting.
You need to be firm but fair with her. It's not too late to change.

I have a spirited one aged 13 now, he was a high needs baby who needed a good routine, a high energy toddler ( trips to the park every day often twice a day) walked at 10.5 months. Challenging at primary school, very clever, very argumentative absolutely needs skilled parenting (constantly). You cannot take your eye off the ball for 5 minutes with him, but have to be constantly "on it". An example of this is money, he will try to (constantly) persuade you that he wants/needs this that and the next thing, he is totally relentless about it, he also has logical arguements about why you should see things his way and if you don't pay attention, afterwards you think hang on I've been had....on the plus side he is so on the ball, you can give him really complex instructions, he is much better at finding his way on public transport than his Dad. I would never worry about him being exploited or bullied. He will be absolutely fine to live independently at 18.

Oh and he doesn't need much sleep- never has.

Trump was a known bully at school saw on a documentary

Also concur with slightly implication that well behaved dc are tedious swots heading for life as a drone unlike their "spirited" counterparts. I actually think "cheeky" is similar to spirited.

Good luck op I would read some of the recommended books and change tack.

I'd go to parenting Aibu is the wrong place.

For those of us whose spirited kids turned out to have developmental disabilities the likely hood is they will be the victim of bullying not the bully.

I think you need more specialist support. My sister would have fit any definition of 'spirited'. My mum assumed this was due to trauma earlier in our childhoods. Im pretty sure her parenting methods would have met with warm approval here. Very clear she loved us but she was in charge and firm consequences.

Did it work? Not at all. In her teens she was violent and wouldnt accept boundaries. At 30 my sister was diagnosed with aspergers and possibly PDA. Which is why the mainstream parenting did not work.

Also being good for others may not be a choice. With something like PDA its (my limited understanding as a sibling and aunt) because they learn to mask for a period of time and then let go when they feel safe. So you get all the upset from the situations they couldnt control too.

Gonegonegone Wed 09-Aug-17 08:18:02
"For those of us whose spirited kids turned out to have developmental disabilities the likely hood is they will be the victim of bullying not the bully."

Or, if the behaviour is caused by anxiety, be the ones who harm themselves.

I think a lot of the replies are either from parents with perfect children who have begun to get on their nerves in the summer holidays. Not sure the reason for the harshness. I have two children as you describe. I am a teacher and I know how not to take any nonsense but maybe I am a crap parent too. Usual behaviour management techniques don't work and they are bloody hard work! I think saying spirited is much more pleasant than calling a child a little shit tbh. Some children are just not mouldable, malleable children that respond in the same way to punishment. You need to find what works for you and keeps you sane, without her thinking you are a pushover. I'm sure they will get the message in the end with co distinct! I feel your pain though!

Oh you could be describing my dd, also a similar age. I know it's not my parenting. She's always been treated the same as her siblings and they're angels . I suspect she might have adhd but I'm adopting a wait and watch approach.

Spirited is just a parents word for excusing their children's bad behaviour. It's a euphemism for spoilt brat.

I find a good way to make her less demanding is to say lets do xyz together (her choice of activity) until x time, then you entertain yourself for a bit whilst I have a cuppa/do housework/get some bits done (aka mumsnet).

Read Gentle Parenting (or Gentle discipline) by Sarah Ockwell-Smith.
She has some great solutions about not being a passive parent whilst still allowing your child to be free and young. It will also help you understand your DD more.
It might suit your family well.

I can't believe the horrible comments made to OP daughter, she posted asking for help not for people to insult her daughter.

Spirited to me is another term for a child who won't do what they're told.

I'm shocked by some of the mean replies on here and shocked by how many posters appear to have completely obedient children!

Fucking awful comments as per usual.
at those posters listing similar behaviour from their own children and calling it something else.
Anyone else wanna add that they thought op was talking about a toddler?
As a TA l've seen lots of this 'spirited' behaviour in kids actually older than nine. So please bear that in mind.
I don't care that this is is Aibu? This is a site supposed to be in favour of supporting other parents.
What on earth gives some of you the confidence to shatter someone's life with a few snippy and uneducated opinions?

op my niece was just as you've described your daughter.
Anxious and demanding - all in one heavy parcel. Nearly finished my sister off and destroyed her marriage.
The good news is that now at 22,her daughter is a joy- the challenging behaviour from her childhood now giving way to a human who is loving and a joy to be around.
I hope you find support irl