To ask what constitutes a 'spirited child'?

[malificent7]

My dd is lovely but she is what I would call 'spirited.'
She is definitely not the obedient type. I don't think that blind obedience is a god trait but she often does the opposite to what I would like or point blank refuses to cooperate. She will make a fuss if I ask her to help tidy up for example.
She is very demanding and wants my attention. She is a diva and every little scratch is a major catastrophe.
She is boisterous and likes to dance around and throw herself at me.
She loves to play pranks and has a wicked sense of humour.
At the moment she is prone to anxiety and is very clingy but I am working with her to get over this.
She is bloody stubborn, bossy and likes to be in control.
I love her to bits but bloody hell, I am exhausted and need a break...which she is reluctant to give to me due to anxiety.
She will not let me sit in peace and demands my attention if she senses I am still. We argue a lot but also have lovely, cuddly times.
She is 9. So is she spirited or is this normal? Any tips would be useful.

It's because you used the word 'spirited'

Parent who refers to their child as spirited = / = parent who indulges bad behavior because they think it's the child's character.

Yes some children are naturally more questioning and inquisitive, some will push all the boundaries. Doesn't mean that shitty behaviour is acceptable

I do think that it's part of it though, OP - you making excuses. You're trying to find out if she's 'spirited' in this post. No, she's badly behaved. You say you don't believe in blind obedience - something I've often heard from people with badly behaved children to sort of reassure themselves that it's ok because there's something wrong with having nice, polite children anyway. That and the myth that 'spirited' children grow up to be more intelligent, leaders, pioneers etc. No - just arseholes.

But that aside, this sentence tells you a lot of what you need to know about your daughter:

She has accepted my partner at last and loves him but she was very jealous at first.

She sounds like yet another child forced into a blended family and having to share her parent with a non family member and be parented by a non family member. It's horrible for children and it doesn't tend to lead to happy, secure children.

My advice - since that's what you're asking for - is firm boundaries, and putting her first before your partner at all times.

OP, I know you say you have left the thread but, maybe not.

You also say your DD 'likes to be in control' but you also say she is 'anxious and clingy'.

I think anxious and clingy trumps being in control. I think your daughter wants someone to be in control, and if it isn't you then she is stepping up to the plate, but doesn't really want to be the one calling the shots, so that feeds her anxiety. I think she would find life easier if you made it clear that you are the parent, therefore you are the one in control. She is the child, finding out about the world, understandable if it makes her a bit anxious sometimes, but if she can be confident that there is someone behind her making the right decisions that will help ease her anxiety. At nine years old it is not her job to be in control, it is your job, you need to make that very clear.

She is nine, those hormones will be cracking into existence soon, you need to take over before they do.

I have a very extroverted 6yo DD, who exhibits some of these behaviours. Very active, endlessly chatty, intensely curious, very clear about what she will and won't do. Like she's got an extra battery inside. There are two local mums with twin boys who watch her in the park and ask me wide-eyed 'how do you do it?'!

I felt I had to put in place very clear discipline very early on with her. And I police it like my life depends on it (cos it does). No doubt it makes me look crazy to others, but it works well on my diva of a kid.

Example:
Mum: tidy up your art supplies please
DD: (dramatic gesture, whiny tone) no! I don't want to (gives 3 argumentative reasons why not)
Mum: (eye contact- steely gaze) think very carefully about what you say next. Art supplies, cleaned up. Now.
DD: I hate my art stuff, and I hate...
Mum: Yes?
DD: Nothing. Fine. I'm doing it (sneering voice/face)
Mum: come back here. Sit down, look at me and apologise.
DD: Sorrreeeeeee (sarcastic)
Mum: (calmly) stay there and practice your tone until it sounds like a proper apology. I'll be back in 15 mins. After that you can pack away your toys in here and fold the laundry in the basket as well. If there's still no proper apology after 15 mins, or I hear 'huffing' there will be no iPad access for 2 days. iPad time is only for grown up kids who do their jobs, and speak respectfully.

And if she does this three times in one afternoon, I go through the whole thing again and again. Sometimes I think I'm just boring her into submission!

To address the fact that she hates to be alone, I make her sit and listen to kid meditation apps with headphones for 15 mins a day. They are very prescriptive about stillness, and are teaching her what it feels like to just 'be' in her own head, not looking for affirmation from outside it. I think when I started she managed only one minute! I encourage anything like this: reading (not out loud), doing puzzles/wordsearch in a far away part of the house, I leave her with 'something to think about and tell me tomorrow' at bedtime.

I am a researcher, so I ended up learning a lot about having (and changing) a person's 'locus of control' from external to internal. Check it out. I guess that the discipline and the mindfulness is actually about helping her develop and trust her 'little voice inside', rather than just express every (positive or negative) thought she has. I see it as just one more skill I can help her with to increase her independence in later life.

Extroverts can be fabulous, fun, energising and useful people. Or they can be grating, contrary, loud and tactless. I'm plumbing for the first version, but it is hard work being so consistently 'on her'.

Good luck to you!

She is boisterous and likes to dance around and throw herself at me

At 9? I also thought you were talking about a toddler until the end of your post. When someone says spirited about a child it usually means naughty. Your DD is far too old for all that you listed.

My 12 yr old behaves similarly to this. He has ASD/PDA.
It's very difficult to manage, but he is not a brat or a little shit.

Posters would be as well to bear in mind that behaviour outside the expected norm for the age could well have a developmental disability of some sort.

But I'm sure you'll continue to rip shreds into the OP's parenting, this is, after all, AIBU.

AIBU was probably the wrong place to post OP, did you not know everyone's child on here is perfectly behaved. Anyway back in the real world where it's August and a lot of us could do with a break from our not perfect children...

she often does the opposite to what I would like or point blank refuses to cooperate. She will make a fuss if I ask her to help tidy up for example.

Lots of 9 year olds are like this, it is bloody annoying, key thing is to stay calm and not let her get away with refusing to help, even though it would be 100x easier to just give in and tidy up by yourself.

She is boisterous and likes to dance around and throw herself at me.

So does my DD, it's driving me mad, if you find an answer to this please let me know. I snapped and banned dancing in the house the other day, it is not the answer, she just kept flopping over me and saying 'what can I do mum? I'm bored'

At the moment she is prone to anxiety and is very clingy but I am working with her to get over this.

I think this is probably the answer to a lot of your issues to be honest, a lot of what you've described is just attention seeking, the making a fuss, never leaving you alone and bossiness are probably mainly down to her feeling anxious so needing attention and to feel in control. so will get better as she starts feeling less anxious. If you aren't already doing it, some work on her self esteem and independence is likely to help. Does she spend much time away from you not at school? like clubs, visiting family, play dates etc?

The bit about "every scratch being a drama" resonates with me...my friend's DD is 9 and also like that. It's alien to ,me because both of mine have always just got on with it when they hurt themselves.

I notice that my friends are the type who will give attention for the wrong reasons....if their DD tantrums or fakes an injury they will pour attention on her...if she's genuinely sad becuase they've been working all day and not seen her till bedtime, they brush it off.

Could that sort of thing be happening with you OP?

Where has anyone here said their child or parenting is perfect .
The OP asked if their child was spirited and then got defensive when everyone said no. Should we have all said oh yes, its all fine OP, this behaviour is great and character building. When my son behaves like this- interrupting, dragging, refusing to help- he isn't being spirited. He is being naughty and bratty. No excuses and I wouldn't expect anyone else to think it was acceptable either or think he was adorably cheeky.
OP said DD behaves for others. It does not mean OP is a shit parent, it means something isn't working.

Im back for a bit. I do try not to indulge the drama. If it us a tiny cut i say ' never mind.... it will heal' then move swiftly on give or take a plaster or kiss.
If she is genuinely upset about her day i take time to lusten and give advice.
I do agree that the blended family thing has contributed but he is amazing with her and she is very keen for him to move in and ve part of our family.
I think its good for only children to share mummy and see her happy and in love. We have been very careful to demonstrate that she comes first though and i love her more than anyone.

Im defensive as i feel it is my fault she is like this. I dont enjoy parentingmuch and have limited energy.

Why don't you tell us what you have put in place OP and we can try and help or advise?

What a load of cunty answers. Op, my son is spirited. It would be the ASD & ADHD. It's bloody exhausting but brilliant too. It's never boring. Typical parenting just doesn't work with mine. Boundaries need to be more relaxed and love and understanding with lots of positivity works best. I find the stricter the boundaries and the harder I come down on spirited behaviour the worse it is. He behaves better when not anxious and knowing he can fuck up but we can talk about it without me shouting or imposing rules. He still throws himself at me at the end of the school day but he's getting too heavy to swing around.

Your child doesn't sound bratty at all, just quite high maintenance. It can be very normal as a mum to get all the shitty behaviour when they behave well elsewhere.

Keep in mind, OP that most of the vipers at their most viperish come out to play at this time of night. I think you'd get a load of different answers if you posted at 7 am when all the parents of the early risers are up (the difference can be staggering!). And remember, not everyone on MN is a parent.

Not sure if this will help or not, but my take on what you've posted is that your girl ultimately sounds insecure, and the two best ways for you to deal with that (i.e. to help her feel more secure) are to (a) set FIRM boundaries, which she knows and understands and (b) to love her to pieces. I think if you did both of these, most of your problems would just melt away.

It's interesting that you say she's fine at school. So it does sound like a 'choice' (not in a bad way - we behave the worst with the people we most trust, so it's a back-handed compliment to you that she is, in fact, secure in your love); but school will have age appropriate expectations, rewards and consequences. You can do this at home too.

In your shoes, I'd be giving her loads of attention, and commenting on this ("I love us spending time together just you and me"). Try and make 'jobs' fun, and also part of you/her time together. Whenever you get behaviour you like, comment on it like crazy (in a positive way). Try and give as little attention as possible to the behaviours you don't like. Pick your battles - ignore where you can. Give obvious rewards when you get what you want, and ignore if you can when you don't get what you want. Where you can't ignore, then make any consequence immediate and relevant. (so no "well there'll be no sweets this weekend" for an incident on Monday). If you can give reasons for the 'jobs' that she understands, she'll be more likely to go along with them.

So -
Please can you tidy your room
Why
Because you're a member of this house (shows she belongs) and once your room is tidy, we'll have space to play another game together. If you won't tidy up, we can't play our game.

I like the pp who suggested 'how many toys can you pick up in 1 minute" or using tongs - brilliant suggestions.

Good luck, OP.

Malificent, that all sounds good, meanwhile you have been given some different perspectives to consider , so I hope you do. Maybe some of them will resonate.

"I think it is good for only children to share mummy and see her happy and in love" . Possibly, but possibly not if you don't like sharing and are not used to sharing. Your daughter needs stability and consistency in her life, in my experience new partners often mean new babies, you need to get things under control with your daughter before she has to deal with another distraction and more sharing.

I hate the lazy idea that 'spirited' equals 'spoiled brat'. I also have a challenging, independent and intense child. I am not a pushover but more discipline does not always work. I found the book 'raising your spirited child' useful.

Totally agree with toysareus.

Why is 'loving to dance and throwing herself at the OP' a bad thing. I'm imagining a child that is happy and dancing away a lot, then she sees her mother and runs over and gives her a big hug. Sounds like a genuinely lovely trait that as a mother I would be happy for my child to still be doing aged 90, never mind 9. Yet lots of posters have picked this one aspect of the little girls behaviours to quote and be especially appalled at?!?

Genuinely baffled!!!

She's not what I would call spirited, she's what I would call bratty.

"Why is 'loving to dance and throwing herself at the OP' a bad thing.". That isn't what the OP said though. She said boisterous, and likes to dance around and throw herself at me. Which could be wildly inappropriate or dangerous if the OP is cooking dinner or pouring drain-cleaner down the sink, or just incredibly disruptive and hard to live with at many other points in the day. Dancing , hugging, affectionate contact are all wonderful and loving in the normal course of family relationships but a growing child boisterously throwing herself on to the OP is not the same as

I have a 9 year old whos been through similar and sometimes he is like this. However i cut it off when it starts. I don't indulge in what i class as naughty or bratty behaviour. I thinknits down to where you think rhe line and where your letting her push it. At this age its all about finding out where the line can be pushed too and indulging in it is only making a rod for your own back. Its easy for a small thing youve let go turn into a sightly bigger/worse issue and then feel like because you didnt address the origibal issue you cant complain about the bigger issue. For example you allow 30 mins screen time because shes knackered and you known itll wear her out. As she gets older her tolerance becomes one hour and then 2 you feel like you cant nust cut her off as its been built up over time with you saying yes. Start saying no. Write down your rules and stick by them. Revisit them every birthday to see if aomething can be changed (only if theyve proved theyre responsibility)

Spirited does not mean bratty! What a lot if judgemental, mean replies you've had op

Why is 'loving to dance and throwing herself at the OP' a bad thing it all sounds very lovely doesn't it? It's not, my DD chooses the worst possible moments to do it and there's no warning. She literally throws herself at me and I frequently end up getting hurt and/or knocked over, she chipped one of my teeth doing it a while ago and has a real knack for headbutting my nose, which really hurts, then when I tell her off I feel guilty coz I've essentially just snapped at her for hugging me.