To ask what constitutes a 'spirited child'?

[malificent7]

My dd is lovely but she is what I would call 'spirited.'
She is definitely not the obedient type. I don't think that blind obedience is a god trait but she often does the opposite to what I would like or point blank refuses to cooperate. She will make a fuss if I ask her to help tidy up for example.
She is very demanding and wants my attention. She is a diva and every little scratch is a major catastrophe.
She is boisterous and likes to dance around and throw herself at me.
She loves to play pranks and has a wicked sense of humour.
At the moment she is prone to anxiety and is very clingy but I am working with her to get over this.
She is bloody stubborn, bossy and likes to be in control.
I love her to bits but bloody hell, I am exhausted and need a break...which she is reluctant to give to me due to anxiety.
She will not let me sit in peace and demands my attention if she senses I am still. We argue a lot but also have lovely, cuddly times.
She is 9. So is she spirited or is this normal? Any tips would be useful.

My child is spirited.
Your child is naughty.
His/her child is a psychopath.

Oh op, I read all through the post smiling and thinking "gosh yes toddlers are hard!"
But 9?
I don't know much about older kids but my almost 5 year old has more or less matured out of this phase.
How is she in school?
I'd suggest talk to school and GP to see if they'd rule out any underlying causes for behaviour, then get on a parenting course and start being a little bit firmer with her.
Good luck!

I too thought you were initially describing a much younger child op, sorry.

I don't think of 'spirited' as naughty or bratty. My own child is neither naughty nor bratty, but he has a zest for life, an inquiring mind and can be impetuous and very loud. But he understands rules and boundaries. I'm afraid op you have some work to do with your dd and I mean this kindly.

Good one, Sisyphus

I think that it's your title that's the problem.

I agree with the others that spirited is a polite way to say badly behaved and it's often used by parents who want to excuse their child's behaviour.

I think that if you'd said that dd is going through a clingy/insecure/unhappy phase, how can I get her back on the straight and narrow then you'd have had more helpful replies. It's not clear if she's always been like this or it's a temporary phase. I thought that you were describing a toddler/pre-schooler too.

I think you did yourself a disservice by the language you used in your OP. "spirited" is a word that tends to bring out the worst in MNers because they have seen it used too often in contexts where it is clear the poster has no intention of enforcing boundaries. This, together with some other language further down, and your flouncing a few posts in, will have sent posters' minds in a certain direction, possibly unfairly.

Reading beyond the language, and looking at the specific behaviours you describe, it seems to me that a fair few of your dd's behaviours might well be anxiety-related. They are not 100 miles away from behaviours my own dd displayed at that age, and she has been on medication for anxiety for several years now (and is a very lovely and considerate young adult). We are in a good place because we all recognise there is a problem and she is getting help
(And incidentally, I have posted in great detail about our problems on MN and never had it suggested that she is a spoiled brat- but that is probably more to do with wording than any kind of superior parenting on my part)

So if you are still checking into this thread these are some of the things that have helped us:

maintaining a very calm steady presence myself (breathe, breathe, breathe)

not getting drawn into pointless arguments

encouraging her to recognise when she is getting stressed and anxious, not just when she is clingy and unhappy, but even more so when she is on a "high" and demanding too much from me ("are you feeling a bit stressed" works well for us)

helping her to work with relaxation techniques at those times

encouraging her to recognise that as often as not relaxation techniques will also help with physical problems and worries

not allowing any bossy or unpleasant behaviour either towards me or other family members (yes, I recognise anxiety is hard to bear, but when she has a painful leg, I don't allow her to kick my leg just to share the pain)

professional counselling

In our case, I don't think the problem is caused by parenting: our parenting is very similar to that of my parents and of my siblings, out of a large extended family most are perfectly balanced, but the few members who do have high anxiety also have another condition which is thought to be linked to MH issues.

One thing I have noticed, though, is that when you ask for help, whether from friends or professional, the first reaction will often be to assume that the problems stem from your parenting, more specifically from you as a mother (fathers seem to get off more easily). If you want to help your child, you need to learn to stay calm under that pressure, too, and carry on the dialogue. I have been suspected of some pretty horrendous things in my day- and of some things that seem pretty ludicrous to those who know me (being obsessively tidy....)- but in the end I have got help for dd, and that is all that matters.

This isn't a great place to ask for parenting support. There will be people whose children responded well to their parenting style, so they think they must be doing it right and everyone else is wrong.

I have two DSs. One was spirited, hard work, incredibly difficult to manage. The other laid back and easy going, very responsive to discipline though with plenty of cheeky personality.

Children are individuals, and finding a way to motivate and manage them that they respond to is the challenge of parenting.

"Spirited" is usually used by ineffectual parents to describe their horrible little shits.

I would have described my DC as spirited (and highly sensitive, intense, high needs, high strung) when they were young. Then I got them assessed which lead to diagnosis of ASD/PDA, ADHD, dyspraxia in varying combinations over the years it took to get them all diagnosed. I wasn't surprised, and this is when spirited isn't 'bratty' but is part of their disability and thank fuck they have spirit considering all they have to deal with.

Op why are you considering an attachment disorder? That's a pretty extreme diagnosis and reserved for children who have been seriously abused or neglected during their early years for the most part. Have you had her assessed and ruled out for other difficulties by camhs?

Why is bad behaviour called "spirited" now?

Are their spirited adults too? Are prisons full of spirited adults?

OP if your daughter is naughty then that's totally normal, you just need to nip it in the bud so it doesn't affect her school life, friendships, and general future.

Thanks for that post Cory. I found it really helpful for my own 9 year old dd. And OP, ignore all the posters who are giving knee jerk reactions of 'you need to be stricter'. I think its got to be about taking a step back and looking for causes of the behaviour, one of which might be consistent boundaries. But Cory's advice is very useful. I just hope I can get dh on board! Sorry to hijack but could anyone recommend relaxation or mindfulness apps/books?

''Spirited'' is a way parents excuse their kids being little shits, usually spoilt.

People think you're excusing her behaviour because you're calling her ''spirited'' which is exactly what parents call their naughty kids to avoid accepting their is an actual behavioural problem, usually brought on by crappy parenting/discipline.

This went well didn't it 😬

I think kids have different personalities and my own daughter is a bit like that. She often tries to get my attention as soon as I sit down. I think the key is to gently make her aware that you are resting or doing something else and stand your ground. That way you're imposing boundaries. It is very hard though and I understand what you're going through. It's not just parenting. It's a child who doesn't like entertaining themselves.

Part of the antibody reaction to describing badly behaved children as "spirited" is that it implies well behaved children have no spirit. It's also annoying when people justify bad behaviour by saying their child is "bright", again implying that well behaved children are somehow stupid.

I call DD6 spirited because she is creative, intuitive, and knows what she wants/thinks but that doesn't mean she's given free reign and actually she's pretty good at listening or compromising.

Children demanding physical contact are usually demonstrating insecurity somewhere.

I find it most useful to think about what my objective is and to stick to that point. Avoid diverting on to other behaviours that may flare up in an attempt to divert away from your primary objective.

Talking about the behaviour and why it is a problem when all has calmed down but is still fresh. DS1 had massive tantrums when he was younger and can still blow at 6. He's great most of the time, but when he's safe at home and tired or hungry, the control that he has slips. He's best to be put safely and quietly in his room to be vented out, then talked about after. If he's not ready for a calm conversation, I walk away and return in a few minutes. It can take a few repeats.

Regular exercise. I can tell when they've been sat too long, even for something focused like Lego. The energy sort of builds up in them then erupts.

Be clear in your expectations of how you behave and they behave. I need to go because I told DS2 that I needed 10 more minutes of quiet time, then I would join him and my time has lapsed.

If there are underlying issues, your management of her behaviour is still a first port of call. If underlying issues are identified that may direct you to types of suitable strategies, but it doesn't reduce the effort taken to be consistent. Every child is different and different strategies will have different success rates.

My unit once gained a brownie who was used to being allowed to dominate the home. She knew that a "no" would give in to her whims within 3 tries. She did learn that when a brownie leader, any brownie leader said "no" we actually meant no. It took patience, just a bit more than she had, but we got there, and she accepted them. When she worked with definite boundaries, she was lovely and a joy to have in the unit.

I think you should all note that i put spirited in punctuation marks like so... 'spirited'. Hence acknowleding the irony of the term.

Seriously? If you think OP is somehow projecting that she's a superior parent, I wonder WTF you are on.

She's asking if her DD is "spirited" because she's run out of options, presumably because to ask directly "Do you think my DD has special needs" seems like a leap and also is quite a scary thing to be wondering.

She's explained that she doesn't think children should be immediately obedient in order to communicate that it's not that she has unrealistic expectations of her child.

She said she is "exhausted". An exhausted parent is not usually smiling indulgently while their offspring wreck the joint. They are running around desperately trying to stop them, running every gamut of parenting over the years, from asking nicely, to using typical punishments, to losing it and shouting.

She might have picked an unfortunate word to use but it's not hugely difficult to see she's asking if her daughter's behaviour is unusual/abnormal. Not looking for an excuse.

the poor behaviour of their ownferal bratsis evidence that they are future world leaders.

To be fair, they probably have a point if the model to which they aspire is Donald Trump.

She sounds like my sil and she's 40....clamp down on her open. Beat fish behaviour is unpleasant at any age particularly at the age of 40. My sil has no real friends, nobody likes her and unsurprisingly she's single without any real chance in finding a partner and settling down. She is also unable to hold down a job for longer than a year because she's in constant conflict with her colleagues so her contracts are never extended. It's always somebody else's fault never hers.

Is this the life you want for your daughter?