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Caster Semenya- how can I explain this to DH?

318 replies

AngeloMysterioso · 07/08/2017 21:39

Watching the athletics on TV, and they had a little video and debate about Caster Semenya. DH who can be completely pig headed at the best of times says the girls competing against her are just bitter because they can't win. A debate ensues between us about it- he's saying it's essentially the same as average height basketball players complaining about tall men having an advantage because of their height, or white sprinters complaining that black sprinters have an advantage because of their musculature. He is absolutely insistent that it's basically the same thing. How the hell do I make him understand?!

OP posts:
StillDrivingMeBonkers · 07/08/2017 21:40

What are you making him understand? You haven't put your POV in the OP

DilbyGlipob · 07/08/2017 21:42

Is he not right then?

StillDrivingMeBonkers · 07/08/2017 21:43

Looking @ the times for the 1500, She qualified 11 seconds behind the leader. Lets see if she wins this race shall we?

frieda909 · 07/08/2017 21:44

he's saying it's essentially the same as average height basketball players complaining about tall men having an advantage because of their height, or white sprinters complaining that black sprinters have an advantage because of their musculature.

Isn't it? Confused

PovertyJetset · 07/08/2017 21:45

Caster is intersex and has higher levels of testosterone so it isn't a level playing field. The heightened levels of testosterone occur naturally as she is interaez biologically. However this biological condition when replicated in drug form is banned.

So why should caster be permitted to compete when those who exceed threshold of testosterone through drugs are banned?

It's a very grey area to my mind as caster is not trans.

Pigface1 · 07/08/2017 21:45

I'm guessing the OP's point of view is that because CS has hyperandrogenism (i.e. unusually high levels of testosterone) she shouldn't be allowed to compete as a woman.

But she IS a woman.

Londonyardwork · 07/08/2017 21:45

She has a lot of testosterone due to her condition, however she is far from the best female athlete out there right now

StillDrivingMeBonkers · 07/08/2017 21:47

The allowed levels of testosterone were increased last year (I think it was last year, might have been the year before) to approximately 3x the level the average woman would have. This however is not enough to give an actual physical advantage but it does broadly reflect Semenyas natural testosterone level.

eatingonlyapples · 07/08/2017 21:48

He's basically right. She's got a specific physical condition that allows her to perform very well at her chosen sport. Like a 7' man playing basketball. Or, hell, a 7' woman playing basketball.

There are female athletes who perform better than her.

eatingonlyapples · 07/08/2017 21:49

@StillDrivingMeBonkers

I didn't know that! That's awesome and a great decision.

DilbyGlipob · 07/08/2017 21:49

Hmm. If the advantage that she has is due to her being intersex, which occurs naturally, is it fair to distinguish between that and being a 7ft 3 basketball player? Both must be fairly even in terms of advantage and rarity? (I've not looked that up,happy to be corrected.)

StillDrivingMeBonkers · 07/08/2017 21:50

But she IS a woman.

She identifies as a woman, but has no vagina, ovaries or womb, only an internal pair of undescended testes. She also has a same sex marriage.

I feel incredibly sorry for her. It must be a very difficult life for her.

LineyAgain · 07/08/2017 21:50

Paula Radcliffe was interesting in her comments, and sensitive. But yes, it's difficult until the CAS rule.

Sittinginthesun · 07/08/2017 21:52

Or Bolt and his twitch muscles?

We've just had a conversation about this.

Mollyboom · 07/08/2017 21:53

Most champions have a genetic biological advantage. Height, co- ordination etc. Also most female athletes will generally have higher levels of testosterone than the average female because they tend to have more muscle definition and the ability to build muscle. Caster Semenya takes this just one step further. Huge complications arise with Trans individuals, for which there are no easy answers.

StillDrivingMeBonkers · 07/08/2017 21:55

Bolt - he has another peculiarity - its not his 'twitch' - he simply doesn't decelerate for another couple of yards. Most sprinters can only go full pelt to 70 metres, his steam doesn't start to run out until 90 metres, which doesn't seem a lot but that's what makes the difference, he doesn't decelerate and that's why it looks like a stroll in the park for his as he ambles over the line.

LakieLady · 07/08/2017 21:55

As far as I'm concerned, if she has 2 Y chromosomes and a vagina, she a woman and should be allowed to compete as such.

Papafran · 07/08/2017 21:57

She also has a same sex marriage

Um, sorry, I did not realise that not being heterosexual meant that you were not a woman. What the actual hell does her being married to another woman prove or disprove about her gender? She was raised as a girl and woman.

newtlover · 07/08/2017 21:58

is that true that she is intersex? is there a reliable source for that?
(she just got bronze, btw)
I think that is quite different from being a woman with a high level of testosterone, if that is the case I'm with the OP's DH.

MaidOfStars · 07/08/2017 21:59

I've never seen anything to say she doesn't have a vagina? Is there a source? (I hope not, to be honest)

NauticalDisaster · 07/08/2017 22:00

Point him to a dictionary and show him the definition of a woman, which does not include undescended testes. Intersex athletes should not be competing against women.

bambambini · 07/08/2017 22:00

It's difficult but i think if CS is female then i suppose you could say that her naturally high testosterone is an advantage in the way height could be or extra flexibility for gymnasts.

i thought more interestingly Paula Radcliff was dying to talk about trans inclusion in women's sports when she mentioned weightlifting. I'd love to know what the prof sports folk are really saying about all this regarding testosterone levels etc behind closed doors.

SonicBoomBoom · 07/08/2017 22:00

She identifies as a woman, but has no vagina, ovaries or womb, only an internal pair of undescended testes. She also has a same sex marriage.

Has this been confirmed? And if that is the case, how is she, biologically, a woman?

StillDrivingMeBonkers · 07/08/2017 22:01

She has no discernible sexual characteristics apart from a set of undescended testes. She has no vagina, ovaries or womb.

Had she developed normally in her mother womb, we wouldn't be having this conversation about her gender or her sexual orientation. She would be male with a wife.

As I say, her life isn't one I would wish on anyone. It is not of her choosing.