Caster Semenya- how can I explain this to DH?

[AngeloMysterioso]

Watching the athletics on TV, and they had a little video and debate about Caster Semenya. DH who can be completely pig headed at the best of times says the girls competing against her are just bitter because they can't win. A debate ensues between us about it- he's saying it's essentially the same as average height basketball players complaining about tall men having an advantage because of their height, or white sprinters complaining that black sprinters have an advantage because of their musculature. He is absolutely insistent that it's basically the same thing. How the hell do I make him understand?!

2rebecca words fail me.

2rebecca what a horrible post

Also, there is more to athletic prowess than testosterone. Many posters forget that Caster came 3rd.

Lunargirl. Nothing to do with testosterone
Really? Did you watch the race and have you ever seen a picture of semenya?

As a woman and a competitive runner I would be mightily pissed off if the people I was competing against had testes and 3 times the level of testosterone than a normal woman.
That being said, I feel sorry for Semenya, and think the way she has been treated so publicly is appalling.
But it makes a mockery of woman's sport and it's only going to get worse.
I know a trans woman who now plays football at a very high level (was an average male player) and the women she competes against are fuming.

Is that the same official body that allowed Justin Gatlin to compete after testing positive twice for drugs?

The point is, they have seen the test results, you have not. You are just basing it on prejudice due to internet rumours that she is a man. If they just allowed men to race with women, would the races not be swamped with female-identifying men?

If she has a fully functioning penis and testicles, I doubt she was raised as female since birth. If she does not have a fully functioning penis and testicles, but happens to have internal testes and higher than normal testosterone levels, that is unlikely by itself to give her an advantage.

If I was Laura I don't think I'd hang up my spikes but I'd muse on my misfortune to be of the generation of runners to be running at the same time as CS. And be pissed off at the board who made the decision to let CS run with women.

Caster Semenya is biologically BOTH male and female. The exact details of her condition are private

The details are private and yet you are able to categorically state she is both male and female?

What was wrong with 2 Rebecca's post?

I think you get in to dangerous territory if you start declaring that women are men just because physiologically they look masculine.

Did you watch the race and have you ever seen a picture of semenya?

Yes, to both of your questions. What has the way she looks got to do with her coming third in the race?

to have internal testes and higher than normal testosterone levels, that is unlikely by itself to give her an advantage.

Not true. Scientists found that women with high levels of testosterone, or intersex people, have a 4.5% advantage over women who do not. That is a huge advantage when you're talking about winning margins in the hundreths of seconds.

www.telegraph.co.uk/athletics/2017/07/04/caster-semenya-could-forced-take-testosterone-medication-study/

Do posters really believe that elevated levels of testerone doesn't give an advantage? It absolutely does and all the sports bodies know it does that is why, for example, swimming qualifying times up until puberty are faster for girls than boys. At around 13 the times change and the boys are faster.

Can we all just pause a moment and realise that despite what you may or may not think of Caster being female, the IAAF has concluded that there is insufficient evidence to prove that higher levels of testosterone in women help their athletic performance AT ALL.

This.

2rebecca what a thoroughly nasty post.

At the end of the day, she's either got XX or XY chromosomes - and then a condition that has made her appear as biologically ambiguous in terms of her sex. But she IS either male or female and it's a pity that information is not public knowledge - makes me feel fairly sure that she has XY chromosomes but has been 'deemed' female enough in her biology to run with women, which is kind of shady territory to be honest. I know what people are saying about the speculation being 'terrible' etc but then at the same time I think she also chooses to do a high profile job and reap the rewards of that.

My brother has lots of testosterone. He is crap at running.

I am a woman in a same-sex marriage. I am also crap at running.

I am, however, very tall. This gives me a distinct advantage in reaching the last packet of 'on offer' cereal from the highest supermarket shelf. Sometimes, if feeling kind, I even reach things for others. But not often.

Thank you.

I do agree that this must be difficult for CS however surely the easiest and most honest thing to do would be to release the results of tests? That would make it clear for everyone and all the attention would go away.

You are in dangerous territory if you start declaring that men are women just because physiologically they look feminine... thanks honey could not agree more

catsize

But she IS either male or female and it's a pity that information is not public knowledge

It's private information!

The IAAF are aware.

Re Rebecca 2's comment.

My DH raised an eyebrow when CS was shown on TV. Whether anyone likes it or not there will have been numerous similar responses on sofas across the country.

Catsize

How very silly Catsize - testosterone isn't about the ability to run it's about strength and ability to train.

Can we all just pause a moment and realise that despite what you may or may not think of Caster being female, the IAAF has concluded that there is insufficient evidence to prove that higher levels of testosterone in women help their athletic performance AT ALL.

That isn't strictly true.

She has been raised as a woman.

Frankly, I think society has a ridiculous and infantile attachment to competitive sports, and we should remember that they shouldn't actually matter. I think it is a bit of an embarrassment that we live in a society where we focus so much on celebrating accidents of birth that allow certain people to be better at jumping high or swimming fast. So, no, I don't especially care if she has a biological advantage over other women in her category.

I do care that she was raised as a woman, and all of the controversy I see targets her. I can't help feeling what a shitstorm her life has turned into. She's had to deal with discovering a serious medical issue, right in the public eye, and she's been vilified. And people like the OP make homophobic comments about her, too. Because it is homophobic to bring in her sexuality. We have no idea what her sexuality might have been in an alternate universe where she was raised as a man.

I think there are serious and complicated issues about gender in the world, but this shouldn't be one of them.