To be pissed off with pregnant women smoking

[boringbetty]

I know i am being hormonal and emotional but i really don't care at this moment .
Currently suffering second miscarriage in 5 months so been to the hospital again yesterday . Obviously has to go to the antenatal ward and seeing all these women outside smoking clearly heavily pregnant.
I know it is their choice bla bla but it makes me so angry . I have done nothing wrong but have lost two . I'm not saying these women should have to go through this , nobody should but just makes me angry .
To be honest I don't know why I'm writing this . I know it's up to them what they do . Just wanted to vent really

Anybody genuinely care? No? Actually supporting pregnant women to quit not as important as the opportunity to voice your outrage and disgust?

Righty ho

It's illegal to smoke in the car with a child present so it should be illegal to smoke while pregnant. I am actually an ex smoker: gave up the moment I found out I was pregnant and I think people who continue are absolutely disgusting, weak willed, selfish, pathetic people.

How you can feel your baby kicking off in the womb after a cold drink or sugary snack and not then consider just how linked the two of your are and how much your child would be affected by a steady supply of nicotine and tar coming directly from you totally baffles me. I love my baby despite her not arriving yet and you don't harm things you love because you're too weak to stop doing something. You are absolutely not being unreasonable OP and you deserve a baby a hell of a lot more than these women you've seen outside the hospital.

It's illegal to smoke in the car with a child present so it should be illegal to smoke while pregnant

It's not the same thing.

And can anyone who says it should be illegal please tell us how that would work?

We're letting down 1/10 of MN core audience by making it impossible for them to seek support here.

I will never forget walking out of the hospital after giving birth to my stillborn son. I ate well, didn't drink, didn't smoke and didn't even take a paracetamol. Yet my baby died. And walking out through the doors, there were 5 women all stood smoking and heavily pregnant. It broke my heart and the midwife just ushered me into the car very quickly.
I am very black and white on it - it's child abuse and no different to lighting up a cigarette and putting into a newborn's mouth. If you can't stop smoking for 9 months for a growing life, you don't deserve to be a parent.

Jane that sounds genuinely traumatic, I don't know what to say

Abigcupoffuck (lovely name by the way )
How do you not understand it? It's very very simple: it is your body and only you can decide what happens to it. What is the alternartive to that? There isn't one that isn't horrifying.

You took this out of context. I was comparing it to the laws which already exist to protect us from other people's stupid actions.

I gave other examples where the law protects adults and children. Adults are now protected from passive smoking. Children are protected from smoke in cars. An unborn child- ok, being technical it is a foetus even at 40 weeks - has no protection so it's mother can smoke if she wants to. It has no voice or control over this abuse.

It disgusts me and I wish there were ways to prevent it but of course there aren't. But that doesn't mean we should not feel anger at women inflicting this abuse on their unborn child.

Littlelouse, I don't think it is fair to say that anyone who smokes doesn't deserve a baby more than the OP based on whether they smoke or not, without knowing individuals and their own circumstances. I don't agree with smoking and I think it is a poor decision but I would not say that woman didn't deserve her own child. There's other factors too such as being able to meet the childs needs, showing love and affection and being a competent parent. The woman may be finding it hard to stop instantly and may be cutting down, they may be going through stressful situations or struggling, so I don't think we can comment.

Do you know what, I think this is one of those things that demonstrates that sometimes a bit of judgement is a positive and good thing. Smoking when pregnant is really bad for babies. But some people genuinely are just selfish. If someone's selfish all the medical advice and support, head tilting, hand holding and 'u ok hun'ning in the world isn't going to make them stop smoking. But being made to feel ashamed and embarrassed and knowing you're being judged just bloody might because then it becomes unpleasant for the smoker. Social pressure is an important factor in preventing smoking during pregnancy

Pressure and shaming has been used by the breast feeding lobby extremely effectively and the benefits of a non-smoking mother far, far outweigh those of breastfeeding. So in my opinion people should judge away.

And OP I'm so sorry for your losses and I am sorry you've had to see something so upsetting. I wish they would more. sensitive about miscarriage care and it's promiximty to antenatal care.

You are absolutely not being unreasonable OP and you deserve a baby a hell of a lot more than these women you've seen outside the hospital.

And this. ^^

You took this out of context. I was comparing it to the laws which already exist to protect us from other people's stupid actions.I gave other examples where the law protects adults and children

I took nothing out of context. Laws protect people from other people. A foetus is not a person. It really is a simple as that.

You said you didn't understand it, but it appears you understand it perfectly?

You are absolutely not being unreasonable OP and you deserve a baby a hell of a lot more than these women you've seen outside the hospital.

^^ This is bollocks. Nobody deserves to lose their baby.

@demirose87 I do understand what you're saying but I just can't in my wildest dreams concoct a situation in my head where the 'needs' of the mother to have a cigarette outweighs the potential harm to the baby.

I've got an, at times, incredibly stressful job. I work in a field that attracts comments from people along the lines of 'oh, that's a lot of responsibility' yet I peed on a stick, saw a positive and have never even considered having another cigarette since that day. I'm also in the process of buying a new house having had our first choice fall through a few days before completion so I understand stress but I also know that as a parent it's my responsibility to give my child the best possible start in life and why wouldn't that mean now, while all of her organs are forming and her body is at its most vulnerable?

I stand by what I said: I'm pretty sure that someone who has the foresight to realise they need to nurture and protect their baby from even before it's born does deserve a child more than someone who is putting their own desires first and I'm sure the former person would be a better parent too. The latter person is setting a precedent that they are more important than their child and I don't think that's healthy or how parenthood should be.

@BanginChoons nobody said anything about losing their baby, otherwise I'd have said 'I think these women deserve to miscarry' which I didn't say because I don't think that or agree with anyone who does.

I said that OP deserves to have a child more than these selfish women but sadly this hasn't happened for her yet.

I don't get pissed off with them.

I do however judge the fuck out of them.

I don't understand how anyone can possibly do this.

A pregnant colleague told us that the doctor said she should continue smoking because the stress of quitting is worse for the baby. How is this possibly true?! I know I can't appreciate how difficult it is to give up smoking because I've never been a smoker but surely the health of your baby should be enough? Plus plenty of women have to cope with unavoidable stress while pregnant, it's not always possible to avoid it, that's life.

Shaming people doesn't help them quit though. Support, nicotine replacement and vaping as an alternative is a better start

I do agree with most of what you have said Littelouse, but the point I was trying to make but maybe never worded perfectly, was that no one is more deserving of a child and would make a better parent based on the fact they don't smoke( not talking about OP here, just generally). Yes it is a positive to not smoke when you're pregnant and I don't do it myself, but I wouldn't like to say I deserve my baby more than another woman who I don't know personally.

MargaretTwatyer if judging and shaming worked we wouldn't still have 1/10 pregnant women still smoking at the time of delivery.

There has been no shortage of judging and shaming smokers, including those who are pregnant. Aside from a few not-very-addicted-in-the-first-place smokers, it doesn't work, it makes it less likely pg women will feel ok about accessing help. All it achieves is making those women feel shit.

Mind you, I'm coming to the conclusion that's some people's main aim anyway.

Pressure and shaming is also a totally crap way of trying to improve BF rates.

It's disgusting and I judge the fuck out of them. Of course it's their body and they have the right to smoke if they want to, but that doesn't mean they're not fucking awful for doing so. So sorry for what you've experienced OP, and the last thing you need is walking past some stupid selfish women who won't even stop smoking in the face of overwhelming medical evidence that it's dangerous. I also judge parents with babies in prams puffing clouds of smoke into their child's face.

I actually think that the judging and shaming of smokers over the past 10 years especially, since the smoking ban, has decreased numbers massively. Maybe it's also because it makes it inconvenient to smoke so inconveniencing pregnant smokers even more would be a good step, I'm just not sure how it could be achieved.

We're kidding ourselves if we don't think that there is enough education and support out there already for anyone who wants to quit. It's just that these people choose not to. I'd have counted myself as someone who was 'very addicted' by the way: I'd smoked pretty much everyday for 10 years but I stopped because it would have been unforgivable to continue.

@demirose87 I could be totally wrong here but I wonder how many pregnant smokers also choose to continue other questionable habits during pregnancy, such as drinking? If the willpower isn't there to give up one thing, it's likely that it's not there for other things too. I could be being a bit militant though: I've also not had so much as a paracetamol whilst pregnant and would never consider having even the slightest amount of alcohol etc. I know there are people who don't share my view though.

MargaretTwatyer if judging and shaming worked we wouldn't still have 1/10 pregnant women still smoking at the time of delivery.

Actually I suspect if we didn't judge and apply pressure it would probably be a lot closer to the one in six of the general population.

And yes, the stigmatising of smoking in general has led to the lowest rates of smoking we've ever had.

Help should be offered proactively rather than reactively (e.g. in response to CO2 testing) so 'seeking help' shouldn't be an issue. Besides, I really think it's a myth that they just need help to give up, because huge amounts of money have been spent on discouraging women from smoking and one in ten do still smoke - and that is far more strongly linked to that help clearly not working because of those figures than judgement can be.

Smoking while pg is a highly emotive subject. I needed help to quit when pregnant with ds. And had 3 years of ttc so he wasn't an accident by any means.

I did quit. But it was bloody difficult. I succeeded because I was so ashamed and so wanted a healthy baby and pgy. I wouldn't judge anyone who struggled to quit. But I would and do judge those who won't or don't try.

I do hate to see pg women smoking. But notice that most pg smokers seem to be from lower economic backgrounds. They probably have a much more difficult life than me. They probably deal with poverty day in day out. They are more likely to be victims of abuse. They possibly have issues that I can't understand. And possibly will for the rest of their lives.

So society judges that they shouldn't smoke when pg. But IMO society should support and enable these women to be able to change their lives and not just while pg.

It's easier to judge tho. I have the benefits of a supoortive dp, I don't have to worry about the food shop or getting benefits sanctioned. I don't have a dp with an alcohol or drug problem. He isn't abusive in any way. My family are loving and supportive. I haven't lived a fairy tail but my life hasn't been a nightmare either. And I still needed help to quit.

It's not easy. Not even when you desperately want to. So when everything is so much harder I can understand when it seems impossible.

I actually think that the judging and shaming of smokers over the past 10 years especially, since the smoking ban, has decreased numbers massively.

You can think what you like, it doesn't make it true.

We're kidding ourselves if we don't think that there is enough education and support out there already for anyone who wants to quit.

Good job ASH don't have your complacent attitude. They're very concerned that the current training for HCP who are dealing with PG women is not adequate:

"The majority of staff are clear on the risks of smoking, but not all are quite so clear on how they could help women to stop."

"Undergraduates must not leave midwifery and medical schools simply with knowledge on harms from smoking. They need practical skills so their interaction with a woman who smokes actually helps her to quit. These must not only be taught but be tested too."

“Smoking is an addiction and it can be very hard to give up without the right support. Health professionals need to be sensitive and non-judgemental in the ways they encourage women to give up smoking. Building this into training and professional development is vital.”