Are you a feminist?

[NoLoveofMine]

Yes or no...

Nancy91 that is a very good point and wish I had included it in my post about women letting the side down - I think it is detrimental to the 'cause' (for want of a better word) to be too extreme as you say - it does put women off describing themselves as a feminist.

Based on the Oxford English Dictionary definition, I'm baffled to think anyone could say they do not support feminism. It's just common sense.

"In that case why don't you explain more clearly what you meant in your clear statement 'women are letting the side down'?"

Happy to. (Although that wasn't my statement- I just agreed with it. I might have put it differently if I had initiated it)

There are plenty of women who, for a variety of reasons (personal convenience/comfort, internalized misogeny, lack of awareness) collude with, for want of a better word, "the patriarchy". It is much easier to go with prevailing societal norms than to challenge them. Mumsnet alone is full of threads where women are colluding with the crap behaviour of men towards women even as they complain about them.

A good practical example is all the threads where women are talking about having to wipe up men's piss on a daily basis. There are many men who think that is absolutely OK to pee on the floor round the loo because there is a woman around to clean it up A society where a significant number of one sex thinks that the role of the other sex is to wipe up their piss is not an equal society.

Noloveofmine he sounds like a right charmer

Yes, I'm a gender critical feminist so apparently that automatically means I'm a terf.

I feel it is still needed as our hard won rights are under attack. Abortion access is being restricted in so called first world countries. FGM, honour killings, forced marriage, domestic abuse, wifework such as caring for elderly relatives as well as children are all realities faced by women. That's without getting into the MRAs who have coopted the trans right movement and are trying to erase what being a woman is. (Usual disclaimer, trans people shouldn't face discrimination).

Sorry, missed a final sentence

"And the women who continue to wipe up the piss are colluding in the continuation of that society"

"No. Due to my lifestyle I don't qualify."

Really? What life style is that?

Bertrand the wiping up piss thing really makes me so angry. I know exactly what you mean because I always see posters on threads like that saying 'men just can't help it'. I grew up with a father and a brother. I have a husband and a son. Men can piss in the toilet. If they don't piss in the toilet it's because they don't want to.

I think of all the 'trivial' feminist issues that I encounter, the supposed right of men to piss anywhere they want (in the street, up against a tree, around the toilet in their own home but not in it etc) is the one which makes me despair the most, because so many women collaborate with it.

Yes, I'm a feminist.

Society isn't equal yet. Yes, there are laws that say we have equal rights, but there are a lot of people who don't apply those laws and aren't necessarily held to account for that.

Culturally, there are still big improvements to be made. Men and women are still expected to do different things by society as a whole. For example, in a lot of places women are expected to change their name on marriage and not doing so means you spend a lot of time defending your decisions, men don't even consider doing anything other than keeping their own name. Or women are expected to go part time at work once they have children, men are not, so it's much harder for men to have their part time request granted.

That's before you even get to the big things, like violence, rape, sexual abuse, fgm, etc

In an Emma Watson way though - not a man hating way

Sorry, what is an "Emma Watson" way?

In answer to the op, yes I am, although not the fun sort which believes porn, pole dancing and prostitution are all empowering etc etc.

And I cross posted with your second post.

Yes and more than ever now as women's rights are under attack.

I pole dance, have fake boobs, I'm taking my husbands surname. I've been told that I'm not a feminist because of these things. I am happy with that if it means I get to keep my hobby, be able to wear the clothes I want, and have a surname that I actually like. I'm not going to undo these things so that I can call myself a feminist.

I am a feminist in the wider sense of the word. I am not a MN feminist. Most people I know would class me as a voracious feminist, I am not rad fem.

I have said this before but I often read threads and think "we don't need men to oppress us we are doing a damm fine job ourselves".

Who has not been involved with one of those ironing/housework conversations where women vie to be the cleanest " yes I hoover everyday and iron socks!" ?

@WellErrr

STEM tends to attract the highest achievers and these are usually men. Girls occupy the middle ground.

STEM still has higher male achievers than men.

Thanks for the helpful reminder but I worked on some famous machines right after leaving uni several decades ago. Women were the ticker-tape feeders it's true, but there were also prestigious roles taken by either sex.

You didn't answer the question - simply gave a few questionable 'it's not...'

@Bertrand - do you think that many women switch off when they hear about women with internalised misogyny colluding with the patriarchy? It all sounds so conspiracy theorist and radical and the very reason that the vast majority of women (and men) distance themselves from feminism despite agreeing with the outdated dictionary definition.

I pole dance, have fake boobs, I'm taking my husbands surname. I've been told that I'm not a feminist because of these things

None of those things mean you aren't a feminist, though I don't think any of them are feminist choices.

I wear make up daily. I don't see that as a feminist choice but I would still say I was a feminist.

I am happy with that if it means I get to keep my hobby, be able to wear the clothes I want, and have a surname that I actually like

I wonder how many men don't like their surname?

do you think that many women switch off when they hear about women with internalised misogyny colluding with the patriarchy?

Naturally they do because it's much easier to carry on living in la la land.

Take it from a former liberal feminist!

I don't want to sound patronizing- but just so we're all talking about that same thing, can I just say that a radical feminist is not a militant or extreme feminist? I think sometimes people think that's what it means......

STEM tends to attract the highest achievers and these are usually men. Girls occupy the middle ground.

Rosalind Franklin, Ada Lovelace, Cecila Payne-Gaposchkin, Marie Curie and many others would disagree. More than 30% of the engineers on Crossrail are women to and nearly 50% of the engineers in charge of specific station construction. It's also interesting that at girls' schools, STEM subjects are widely taken up - with Maths being the most taken A Level at many and Physics, Computer Science etc being widely studied.

The oppression of women by women is baffling.

As is the lack of interest in other women by some women.

But then oppressors have always used divide and conquer as an effective strategy.

Nancy91 I think feminism is about choice though - those are your choices and it is your body. I personally think that someone telling you can't identify as a feminist because of your own choices is also 'letting the side down'
I've experienced this attitude too - I don't like dance or anything but about some of my choices of novel I've enjoyed for Instance... "You can't read that book - it's so anti feminist"

Why do people think feminism is somehow discredited because feminists don't agree on everything? Does everybody in the gay rights or anti-racism movements agree? It's almost like the way we judge women is still influenced by misogynistic stereotypes.

BertrandRussell

"I don't want to sound patronizing"

I can't speak for anyone else and I am not going to define the term rad fem, but I know what it means and it is not me.

Yes, of course I'm a feminist.

More important now than it ever was.