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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Are you a feminist?

999 replies

NoLoveofMine · 06/08/2017 02:03

Yes or no...

OP posts:
BertrandRussell · 07/08/2017 11:05

Presumably if a man "raped" a woman with a dildo that wouldn't be rape either?

CherryChasingDotMuncher · 07/08/2017 11:06

Women are more likely to lie about contraceptives

Evidence?

When men lie about contraceptives they are putting an unprotected penis into a woman, when she thinks it's protected. Does that not disgust you? Hardly the same as saying you take a pill when you don't. here's a tip menz, if you really don't want to impregnate a woman, use a condom anyway, or heaven forbid, don't get your dick wet, you can abstain you know! Or perhaps get to know a woman before putting your cock in her. Mind blowing, I know

CherryChasingDotMuncher · 07/08/2017 11:06

Presumably if a man "raped" a woman with a dildo that wouldn't be rape either?

No Bert it would be sexual assault

JacquesHammer · 07/08/2017 11:11

Men and women are the same except for our genitals. Therefore, when there's a gender imbalance (eg. STEM) it's due to the patriarchy and not because women are less adept in this field

I would be considering WHY women are "less adept". Except the truth is they aren't, there's just far less opportunity for women in STEM fields, which then makes women not want to aim to be in a "traditionally male" field so there simply aren't the female candidates. Self-fulfilling prophecy.

The trans debate basically boils down men winning in 'women's' sports (snipped so I can reply to the relavent point)

Well not quite. Yes it is part of any debate surrounding trans and an important one. Except my point of view is slightly different. I deal in provision of rugby. I am a qualified coach. For me it boils down to concern over safety in terms of physical safety with regards to the contact nature of the sport.

pongoismyhero · 07/08/2017 11:28

solitary you have ignored all my other posts explaining why I say that, but do carry on that way if it makes you feel better Confused

I haven't just pulled it out of thin air.

pongoismyhero · 07/08/2017 11:33

^Unbelievable that women are being made out to be simple folk, unable to form their own opinions without being directed by the patriarchy*

Not one person on this thread has ever said that.

Do you really, truly believe that all choices we make are completely uninfluenced by the culture and society we live in?

TheSolitaryBoojum · 07/08/2017 11:38

Not at all pongo, I understand that you are a convert, having moved on from the light-hearted frivolity of LF to the real stuff. And that you are less than half my age, so you are patronising without realising it. And that you are glad you don't have daughters, which is a shame, because watching mine navigate and thrive in the 21stcentury is a thing of awe and delight to me. Even though we disagree in numerous areas, such as trans debates. It's a big camp, but I still think I'm a feminist.

Mumof56 · 07/08/2017 11:38

@cherry" Does that not disgust you? Hardly the same as saying you take a pill when you don't."

of course it disgusts me, what a bizarre statement for you to make.

You seem to be downplaying women saying they take the pill when they don't- does that not disgust you?

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 07/08/2017 11:40

Yes

The fundamental basis of feminism that women and men should be treated equally I doubt many women disagree with

That feminist should not all agree on certain subjects is progression that women can openly have a difference of opinion and have a platform to share that opinion is progression so what some ideas may seem a little out there or just nonsical but to not be able to voice them to not be able to argue your point may that never change without feminism we wouldn't have the chance to do so

AndNowItIsSeven · 07/08/2017 11:46

Equality and fairness are not the same , that is partly why I am not a feminist. I do not what to be treated exactly the same as a man because I am not one.

SophoclesTheFox · 07/08/2017 11:47

This is where I struggle with the debate:

Step 1. Call feminists angry, bitter man-haters who live in echo chambers and are entirely entrenched in our views, which are wrong anyway.

Step 2. Berate us for not engaging sufficiently or being nice enough. Like step 1 never happened.

Does that approach usually pay dividends in any other debate?

As for whether there is a particular brand of good, MN approved feminism, and all other kinds get sneered at...where I see the debate come unstuck is that at its heart liberal feminism only seems to look at the choice of the individual and whether any action as a result of that choice "empowers" a woman. There's no analysis in that. It's a hollow rhetoric, it's very easy to believe in because there's no substance to it, and it doesn't question anything about the environment that shaped the choice, the consequences if every woman made the same choice, or what that pattern of choosing might say about the society we live in. That's what makes the argument from "choice" and "equality" frustrating, not just in feminism, but in many other political movements - if you don't join the dots about all these women just happening to make these choices in these particular patterns, then you've got no analysis, and you've got no momentum to change anything...

Thephoneywar · 07/08/2017 11:48

Can some women here not see how feminism gets a bad rap because of the constant nitpicking and criticisms at other women's choice. Feeling high and mighty because they think critically whereas others are victims of the patriarchy for daring to shave their legs or choosing careers that aren't in STEM.

Piss off with your moralising and women bashing.

You don't see men incessantly infighting over how often they work out or if they shave their chests or balls or if they choose low paying and dangerous jobs.

If feminism can learn one thing from male in group behaviour it is not to constantly have a go at each other in an attempt to put people down and make them feel guilty for their own choices.

Mumof56 · 07/08/2017 11:50

@sop

Step 1 -I have't seen a none on this thread do that

Step 2 I've seen that on the thread, strangely though by the feminists @Merchant for example has done this several times

SophoclesTheFox · 07/08/2017 11:55

I try to be really clear on this. I think what feminists are saying, and what people who criticise feminists are hearing goes like this:

Feminist says: I want to talk about the choice of whether to shave your legs or not in the context of a society where women are told that being hairy is ugly and unfeminine, what ugly and unfeminine means, and to what extent women want to fight against, or go along with societal norms.

Non-Feminist hears: YOU SHAVE YOUR LEGS BECAUSE YOU ARE AN UNTHINKING IGNORANT SHEEP PERSON WHO HAS BEEN BRAINWASHED AND DOESN"T EVEN KNOW IT.

makeourfuture · 07/08/2017 11:57

I believe that our world is heading quickly to conflict. Diminishing resources and climate change will mean war.

Avoiding extinction will require every single person to function at 100%. Misogyny/patriarchy makes this harder for half of the population.

SophoclesTheFox · 07/08/2017 11:58

Step 1 -I have't seen a none on this thread do that

Well you must not have read the thread very thoroughly, because there have been at least three, direct specific uses of the term "man hater" or "man hating". It would be very helpful if you could at least try not to misrepresent things quite so bare facedly.

Original poster
NoLoveofMine · 07/08/2017 11:58

Very much so Sophocles. On that example, I shave my legs and used to do it almost unthinkingly. Could be said I choose to do it but I'm aware of the context I'm doing it in and of course that no boys I know do.

OP posts:
BertrandRussell · 07/08/2017 11:58

"You seem to be downplaying women saying they take the pill when they don't- does that not disgust you?"
Of course it disgusts me. But a man who absolutely does not want to make a baby should take control of his own fertility.

Can you explain more about your link to the woman who sexually abused another woman with a strap on? I'm not sure what point you were trying to make.

Mumof56 · 07/08/2017 12:00

@sop it's the feminists claiming (and have actually repeated several times) women are unthinking.

So if that's what the non feminists are hearing, it's because that's what the femimists have said in those words. Good try at twisting things though.

Mumof56 · 07/08/2017 12:03

@Bert
I'll explain it again for you

A pp said "All rapists are men"

I'm saying that's because the law only permits men to be rapists. get it now?

BertrandRussell · 07/08/2017 12:03

Nobody has said women are unthinking.

SeekEveryEveryKnownHidingPlace · 07/08/2017 12:04

WHERE HAVE THEY SAID THOSE WORDS?

Mumof56 · 07/08/2017 12:05

@Bert & @seek

Both of you obviously haven't read the thread

BertrandRussell · 07/08/2017 12:05

"I'm saying that's because the law only permits men to be rapists. get it now?"
I get it. But I don't understand the significance. If a man did what the woman in your link did it wouldn't be rape either.

Goldenphoenix · 07/08/2017 12:05

I want equal rights for all. Not sure I would describe myself as a feminist though, feminism seems to be quite competitive and i just can be bothered trying to keep up with that.