Are you a feminist?

[NoLoveofMine]

Yes or no...

Mum I think that would technically be sexual assault wouldn't it?

DamnDeDoubtanceIsSpartacus

I didn't say that women don't die at the hands of men, I haven't said that the vast majority of violence against women isn't by men.

I am saying that if you are going to quote something do it properly or you make yourself an easy target for those that are trying to disprove your point.

I saw the link, it's to a female who sexually assaulted a woman.

Female abusers are incredibly rare, that's why feminism focus on the 98% of male offenders.

Mum, if you were a fire fighter would you fight the building that was burning or focus all your energy on a small geranium in the garden that also caught fire? See I would sort out the house first, then if I had time I would put out the much smaller and less dangerous fire. Sounds like you would do it the other way round.

@seek yes it is technically sexual assault. The reason all rapists are men is due to the definition of rape in the law. Only men,not women, can be rapists in the law.

if you were a fire fighter would you fight the building that was burning or focus all your energy on a small geranium in the garden that also caught fire? See I would sort out the house first, then if I had time I would put out the much smaller and less dangerous fire. Sounds like you would do it the other way round

Whilst shouting 'SEE? I TOLD YOU FLOWERS WERE BASTARDS TOO!'

77 dead women in 6 months

77 divided by 26 = 2.96153846154

So the 2 women a week is somewhat underplaying it then.

Is anyone playing MRA bingo?

Yes, I am.

With the proviso that 'feminism' is a very broad church, and that not all branches agree. I personally have very little in common with the second wave feminists of Mumsnet, for instance. I also think almost all women these days are feminists to some extent - if you believe women have the right to vote, receive a decent education, and work for equal pay in equal jobs, you are a feminist. Most of those rights are less than 100 years old still!

The woman in the story you linked to was certainly sexually assaulted. My understanding is that under U.K. law it wouldn't be rape because rape means penetration by a real penis. But I am not a lawyer. I'm not sure what point you are trying to make- I don't think anyone is saying that women are incapable of doing vile things....

Mum they are responsible for the vast majority of all sexual assault, all of it, the whole lot. Women rarely behave like that.

DamnDeDoubtanceIsSpartacus

two women a week is underplaying but if the quote was used correctly it would be 'OK'

Or do you think that these men get to 104 and stop?

The FWR board is a bit off putting because people use such a lot of academic language. A lot of people (me) would feel a bit out of their depth posting there.
But all movements against oppression have conflict within them. In the American civil rights movement there were many different factions, with different methods but with the same basic aim- to be able to live like people. Well, firstly to be treated like people, and then to just be people iyswim.
I see Feminism in the same way. We might not agree on every point but ultimately we would like to not be treated worse than men, or have fewer opportunities than men, and ultimately we want to be in a place where we are no longer asking for this but taking it as our due.
Man hating? Don't make me fucking laugh. The older I get ( the less fuckable I get) the more I feel the contempt from men. Not all men, but enough.
Then I go online and see how many men are sat there seething with bile at women who dare to be visible, for any reason really but especially if they express a feminent opinion.
I might think men are overly entitled and emotionally stunted, I might advise a woman Iiving with a lazy bullying man to leave the bastard but I have never threatened to rape a man with an iron bar, or choke him by sitting on his face.
It's not even the extreme aggression that gets me( I just see them as green ink nutters) It's the eye contact and smirking between 2 young men when the female boss is speaking, it's endless ads referring to "busy mums", it's being talked over by men friends in the pub because they are 45 now and earning good money and know everything, especially about what women want . And the eye rolling if you point out an inequality, like, do you have to be a feminist all the time?
But what is the alternative anyway? To say, it's too hard, it won't work, there's too much infighting and trans nonsense, I'll just turn a blind eye to female ritual mutilation and murder, the pay gap, online hate speech, the fact that Gary at 40 is considered hungry and ripe for promotion but IfNot at 40 is considered safe and mumsy.
Once you know what you know you can't just put it back in the box, can you?

Plus rape with a penis is a huge health risk for a woman, std's, pregnancy etc. It isn't just the act of penetration it can have life changing consequences.

So you say that the new wave of feminists have got it wrong but are now the majority and and are the bad kind? The right kind - (radfems) are a minority and are older and especially the gender critical radfems seem to be hated by the younger extremely trans inclusive majority.

pretty much.

I hope more younger women see the light. I'm only 27 and I have a fair few friends my age coming over to this side of feminism so there is hope.

I don't think liberal feminism is feminism. I don't say that to be patronising, I say that as a former liberal feminist - that is my experience.

Mum- do you think that women (or men) are often sexually assaulted by women wearing strap-ons?

Patriarchy ( if you accept that it's even a thing) will never be smashed because it mainly consists of women judging other women.

And why do women do that?

As for patriarchy not even being a thing - wow.

Reading this thread makes me glad I haven't got daughters.

I said "You see carefully selected statistics. You'll also notice, when a professional from that very field explains why those exact statistics are not accurate, they'll be accused of lieing either about their role or why those statistics aren't accurate. Or even better called a handmaiden/MRA. Makes it so much fun to engage hmm"

You followed that with Feddy are you saying that there are any statistics about male violence that aren't worrying for women? Really?

Which clearly I didn't. You were arguing against a point I didn't make. It's there in black and white. I called you out for that "Thanks! I nearly forgot one of the most important rules of MN feminism. Repackage a posters argument to something you want them to say then argue that point instead. Well done"

You still persist arguing against a point I didn't make You (rather vaguely) claimed that all the statistics quoted about male violence turn out to be 'wrong

No I fucking didn't. Show me where I said that.

By the way, why are you assuming I'm male?

IfNot excellent post! The only thing I'd take issue with is the idea you'd be out of your depth posting anywhere. I know far less than most and am learning all the time. Reading posts like yours hugely helps with this!

The reason all rapists are men is due to the definition of rape in the law. Only men,not women, can be rapists in the law

yes, I know - given this, I wasn't sure why you were asking, really.

@well Here's something you've never seen before. www.google.ie/search?client=ms-android-samsung&tbm=isch&q=unshaven+women+at+the+beach&spell=1&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjEzuiL68TVAhWHBsAKHQhwAMUQvwUIRSgA&biw=320&bih=452&dpr=1.5

@Damm yes that case is rare but it should be rape. It can't be though because the definition of rape. A pp saying all rapists are men failed to point out under the law, only men can be rapists. Women are more likely to lie about contraceptives. If men did the same that is also classed as rape.

People throwing accusations round of feminists being man haters - consider this (I'm paraphrasing it from a Facebook post I saw)...

Misogynists (those who hate women) want to hurt women, break them down, damage them and disadvantage them. They want to harm women in so many ways
Misandrists (those who hate men) don't want to harm men, they just don't want to be around men, because men are their oppressors.

I think it's very telling of internalised misogyny that people are afraid of feminism because they believe it makes them look like they hate men - that's so much worse than being complicit in the oppression of women

Plus rape with a penis is a huge health risk for a woman, std's, pregnancy etc. It isn't just the act of penetration it can have life changing consequences

This is why the definition of rape needs to stay as something that can ONLY be done with a penis.

People frothing at the mouth about women it being able to rape - in practice it means that, if for example a woman penetrated a man's abuse with a foreign object, it would be (I think this is the right term) sexual assault by penetration and, depending on the circumstances, plea, victim impact etc, would get roughly the same sentence as if a man raped a woman. And before you say it, no, women do not get lighter sentences than a men.

@pongo "And why do women do that"

Ohh, I got this: Because patrichary.

Unbelievable that women are being made out to be simple folk, unable to form their own opinions without being directed by the patriarchy.

How do you mean 'it should be rape'? This seems a bit circular: we all, including the law, agree that only men can rape. It's like saying you want the definition of murder extended to include battery. That's not what murder is.

Rape is what it is, and it means what it means.

'I don't think liberal feminism is feminism'

Feminism, you're doing it wrong. So that's another tick on my FWR bingo board.