Are you a feminist?

[NoLoveofMine]

Yes or no...

Yes mousse but many Brexiteers won't admit to changing their mind now because we're obviously in too deep. So the arguments may have swayed them after some time, but we'll never know...

Oh come on Mumof56! You mocked and goaded, someone finally responded in a mildly disobliging way and you're claiming ill treatment?

@well "Not all men are rapists; but ALL rapists are men. "

Is that because of the legal definition of rape or because you dismiss cases like the one linked below as proper rape?

nypost.com/2017/07/20/woman-jailed-for-wearing-fake-penis-tricking-friend-into-sex/

I don't quite see the relevance of your post at 9.58 mousse ?

I wasn't really saying feminists are treated differently, but that they keep being accused of 'shouting down' the opposition. Why are they so good at this? If their arguments are faulty, why aren't they the ones ^being shouted down'?

Mousse, to me it's reminiscent of when someone asks 'Why do so many women not see themselves as feminists?' and they get a lot if responses from women saying why. Then the OP and others say that none of the reasons or arguments make sense, and that is because we have been raised in a patriarchal society and their thoughts and understanding are therefore flawed and contaminated and just....wrong.
So the responders disengage, or get angry, others dismiss or patronise and the question remains an unsolvable dilemma.

Freddy are you saying that there are any statistics about male violence that aren't worrying for women? Really?

Thanks! I nearly forgot one of the most important rules of MN feminism. Repackage a posters argument to something you want them to say then argue that point instead. Well done

@well "Would you go to the beach in a bikini without shaving one hair on your body? Underarms, legs, bikini line?"

Yes I would. Because I'm happy with my body and am not out to impress men. More often it's other women who comment on it.

Do you?

I keep seeing people stating that on the one hand females want equality but on the other we want to have special treatment.

Reverse it and look at the behaviour of males in our society. They carry out 98% of sexual violence and are rarely sanctioned, they harass and abuse women going about their daily lives. They murder women and are described in the press as loving men, their victims often remain unnamed. They talk over women, take away their jobs when they become higher paying, tech industry, car manufacturing.

Men are over represented in every area of life. They use women to care for the young the sick and the elderly and when this is in the form of a job then that job has lower wages. They expect women to sort out all social functions, child care, birth control, grandmas's birthday.

I want that to stop, I want men to stop that behaviour. Whilst not all men are responsible all men are complicit unless they openly challenge this behaviour.

@Bert ok dear

Freddystarshamster

As you know the big issue with stats is that they can be read many ways (and the always misquoted "two women"). On the FWR one on the complaints about DV numbers is how they are recorded.

and of course that any woman that commits DV is just a victim that has fought back.

Oh and from the article that was posted DA is not as bad as DV.

Right, well, I'll have to bow out for a bit because I've got stuff to do.

But I'm happy enough that no one has provided any direct examples of MN feminist man-hatred. I'll be back later to check...

Btw nice work on finding that story about a womam rapist mum. Why don't you pop it on the pile with all the thousands of other stories like it... Oh wait...

Yes I would. Because I'm happy with my body and am not out to impress men

😂😂😂😂 bullshit.

I knew you would say that though. I live and work on the beach; I see tens of thousands of people on the beach each year. And NOT ONCE have I seen a woman in a bikini with fully hairy legs, underarms and bikini line. Never.

But yes, of course you do

This is a very sad thread

And it shows exactly why we still need feminism!

@well

Yes because yours is the only beach in the world

Why do you find it hard to believe? As I said it's always other women who comment as you have proved this as you admit to looking to see if women have shaved or not. Your laughter at the idea of it speaks volumes. I feel sorry for you if you are not comfortable enough in your own body to do the same.

Oops - must just respond to Freddy (wouldn't want him disengaging!)

No, I asked you a question. I didn't re-package anything. You (rather vaguely) claimed that all the statistics quoted about male violence turn out to be 'wrong'. If people are quoting incorrect figures, sure - correct them! But my point was that, unless you're now going to magically produce some figures that differ wildly from any we've ever seen, those figures are still going to worry women who, you know, don't like being raped and murdered.

Prove me wrong.

and the always misquoted "two women"

77 women dead at the hands of men Jan-June 2017.

Stats are funny things but bodies are very real.

It's an inconvenient truth that men keep killing women.

@well

You never answered if you do or don't. But I'm guessing you do shave and laugh at those that don't (if you ever saw someone who didn't)

it's not patriachy that expects women to shave, it's other women.

And you call yourself a feminist

TheSolitaryBoojum

Exactly, women's voices are dismissed by men. Women's voices are also dismissed by women.

False consciousness does exist but pointing it by patronising people and being smug is not going to get anyone on that feminist bus.

it's always other women who comment as you have proved this as you admit to looking to see if women have shaved or not. Your laughter at the idea of it speaks volumes.

Oh I'm not laughing at the idea of a woman going unshaven to the beach. I'd have massive respect for that; I certainly wouldn't do it because people would be vile about it and I'm too chicken; I don't want to end up in the 'circle of shame' in some (male-run) tabloid.

No, it was your barefaced, predictable lies and goady fuckery that made me chuckle

This thread is depressing.

Ps OP - yes, I am a feminist.

Patriarchy ( if you accept that it's even a thing) will never be smashed because it mainly consists of women judging other women. How do you fix that? It's gone on since time immemorial.

You can't deny that feminists judge as much as the next woman, just in a different way.

You never answered if you do or don't.

Yes I did.

Truthfully, too! What a novelty!

My daughter was shamed into shaving.

Girls and women internalise misogyny and police other women's behaviour. The whole shaving thing changes decade by decade but is driven by a society controlled by males.

This is the same as when women criticise women who are raped when they are drunk, or wearing a short skirt. Society teaches us not to trust women and to doubt their word and character, it's as old as Eve.

@well I certainly wouldn't do it because people would be vile about it and I'm too chicken

I do in and most people don't care. You get the odd few like yourself who think it's hilarious but those with that attitude don't matter to me

So you claim knowledge of how other people react, yet you have never tried it?

Also you never answered my other question. Do you think that victim I. The story I linked to was raped?