Are you a feminist?

[NoLoveofMine]

Yes or no...

MerchantofVenice

Liberal feminism is not well received..........

I have to say that I do agree with mousse to an extent

A PP mentioned how we are disagreeing over what a woman is.
Simple..adult human female.
The gender self identity proposals are the biggest threat to womens rights I have known in my lifetime. If gender identity becomes a protected characteristic then what stops it overtaking sex as a protected characteristic. This needs to be discussed. People are blindly unaware about the implications of these proposals. Also, no I am not a TERF (which is a slur used to shut women up). I believe trans people have the right to dignity and self expression - just not at the expense of hard won womens rights. (prepares to be crucified)

'Maybe if we started treating each other with respect we would be in a better position to work together and achieve something? Maybe?'

Yes instead of calling people 'dear', saying you can't argue with stupid, 'bingo' etc etc etc. Try treating women here with a bit of respect, would be a starter surely? Maybe others would pay more attention to what was being said.

I get that feminism, liberal or otherwise, is not well received by great swathes of the population (hence our problems, and the very need for feminism), but amongst women who come onto the feminist boards?? Why does reasoned feminist debate upset and alienate these women?

Happy gender identity already is a protected characteristic- the proposed reforms just make legally identify as the gender of your choice completely a matter of self identification.

It's scary stuff.

Capitalism is what fucks us over men,women, black or white. It's the economy stupid.

Yes but some people get fucked over more than others.

Or to twist GO's words, some of us are more unequal than others.

Why? Because capitalism gets away with whatever it can in the name of profit and it exploits the historical inequalities nicely put in place by patriarchy.

Picky correction (sorry!) - gender reassignment is a protected characteristic, not identity.

This happens periodically when women speak out about their rights and oppressions. Men don't like it, so they try to put a stop to it.

Its the Menz I tell ya, THE MENZZZZ!!!!

Just RTFT there were a few pp's that mentioned other women needed feminism because of how many woman get killed by their partners, I dont understand how feminism would stop murderers being murderers, I've been puzzling over it for most of the last couple of hours

Yeah, ok, perhaps the 'dear' comment is a case in point - is that the sort of thing people mean?

Tbh I usually see that sort of comment aimed at people who have repeatedly argued black is white, so to speak. It's not ideal to get that exasperated and I suppose it is condescending (and a bit sexist, unfortunately...) - but wasn't the 'dear' aimed at the poster who kept on and on denying that taking your husband's name is rooted in patriarchal traditions? I mean really!?

Yes, posters who are wilfully ignorant will get patronised. But that's the case on any forum. Don't see why feminists should be held to sterner standards...

On the transgender issue, as far as I can see, the gender critical feminists on MN have categoically destroyed the argument for letting transwomen into female spaces time and time again. They have dismantled, completely, every counter argument. No one has successfully won an argument that transwomen should enter women's spaces. So I forgive any exasperation or condescension on those grounds.

Smile - thank you . Sorry, you are right I wasn't very clear. It worries me greatly that for example if this goes through any male can potentially manipulate this legislation to self identify themselves into womens spaces. And there will be nothing at all we can do to challenge them. Am i right in thinking at the moment if I see a male in womens changing rooms I can question his right to be there. When this self identity goes through I won't be able to say a thing...will just have to keep quiet and go about my business otherwise be accused of hate speech. Womens sports will be dead if this goes through too. Sorry... I am not being very coherant as am shattered but this is a genuine worry.

I am a Feminist all the way to my core!

Crosspost with Merchant. Thank goodness people are speaking up here at least

You are of course right, Beyond - and it's not picky. In the current climate details are important.

Yes, radical version

My thread was one where you got offended by use of the term "mansplaining" mousse. Here's a link to let others decide how unreasonable (or not) the term was in context www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/2997610-Please-talk-to-me-about-feminism-and-capitalism

Yes, from what I gather, MN is one of the only places online that you can safely state that a man is a man...

Having said that (and desperately looking for glimmers of hope), I do think that most people in real life can see the absurdity of blokes like Danielle Muscato saying they are women. Most people don't actually know this bullshit is going on. I explained it all to my husband. He was immediately on the side of common sense. Unfortunately, he is fairly uninfluential when it comes to making laws...

Yes, definitely. AFAIK, women comprise 52% of the adult population. When 52% of politicians, judges, radio presenters, radio interviewees, company directors are female; when we earn 52% of the money and own 52% of the land and other property; when 52% of of speaking parts in films and 52% of characters in children's cartoons are female; when we only do 52% of the housework but get to do 52% of the driving, then we'll be getting somewhere near.
Oh yeah and when women are not getting murdered by men at a rate of 2 per week and raped and battered by the score every week and exploited in the porn industry.
Oh and when we all have access to safe abortion rights on the NHS.
When "..like a girl" isn't an insult .
We'll be getting there.
I'll still be a feminist.

"but wasn't the 'dear' aimed at the poster who kept on and on denying that taking your husband's name is rooted in patriarchal traditions? I mean really!? "

That wasn't what I said. But if women having the choice to change their name or not is too hard to grasp, carry on

Yes, but I don't think men and women are equal in all ways because I think evolution and biology should not be ignored. To generalise, because that's all you can do when talking about 'men' and 'women', in some things we have evolved to have an advantage, in other things we can compete on an even keel, in others we are at a disadvantage. Of course there are exceptions to the rule, many of them, but I think it's delusional to throw out the rule completely.

Look mum, plenty of posters have already tried with you. I'm not a fan of banging my head against a brick wall...

Disclaimer: Yes, that was a bit rude and condescending. I do not claim to represent all feminists with my tone.

Yes. Very much so. Proud of it too.

Icantseethepretzels, I totally agree with the point you are making in the post but do you not think your use of dear is a wee bit patronising?

Yes i think it was a wee bit patronising, I think it was a whole lot patronising. i'd been explaining a really simple point over and over for ages whilst she goaded like fuckery, pretended not to get it and made increasingly snide and sneering comments that derailed further and further.

So I talked to her like the idiot she was pretending to be. Sue me

ok @merchant lets ignore the facts and pretend that women don't have the choice wether to change thier names and the ones that do, do so because they are simple.

As I said, carry on with the "pressing" issues that some feminists busy themselves with

To answer the OP.

Liberal Feminist.

Modern feminism has turned into a conspiracy theory about patriarchy and a overbearing moral preaching.

If people are not breaking the law let people get on with their lives and let them live it the way they choose to. Stop trying to micro manage everyones elses lives.