Are you a feminist?

[NoLoveofMine]

Yes or no...

I believe I am equal to any other person on the planet and everyone is my equal. We should all believe that. If we did we wouldn't need labels like feminist

Yeah, but we do because not everyone believes that. HTH.

The femenists were already fretting about it before I got here.

*feminists.

Nice little addition of misogynistic language there, too

I believe I am equal to any other person on the planet and everyone is my equal.

Sadly a great deal of people on the planet don't agree with you and it's resulted in women being extremely disadvantaged the world over.

Do people actually believe feminism = thinking you're better than men?

I feel sad that the movement is so very misunderstood that people actually believe it's all about the menz

It just seems feminism has a civil war going on - and can't even agree on what a "woman" or a "feminist" actually is. It's all a bit ridiculous. The feminist board has bern educational though and has made me think and possibly be more critical.

This happens periodically when women speak out about their rights and oppressions. Men don't like it, so they try to put a stop to it.
Whether that's by painting feminists as angry, hairy legged, dungaree wearing lesbians, or the latest thing of insisting that actually they are women too and we have to accommodate them - it's always happened. And unfortunately, probably always will.

Yes, absolutely. Gender critical.

What a depressing thread.

Really, do some of you not see how condesceding you can be? Icantseethepretzels, I totally agree with the point you are making in the post but do you not think your use of dear is a wee bit patronising? A little like how some men use it to demean women?

As I say, I agree with the meat of what you are saying wholeheartedly but I just don't feel that approach helps anyone.

@Eldon

Nice, are you always that pleasant? Very good contribution to the debate. It wins well's spelling correction.

How am I any of those things?

Isn't it a bit pathetic to keep focusing on some 'tone' you don't like when women are being raped, murdered and abused in huge numbers?

I don't get this absolute despair that some women have over the fact that there are disagreements within feminism. Yes, there are some pretty important issues within feminism that need careful discussion right now. But discussion and disagreement are necessary. It's not a cult... Better to be part of the discussion, surely, rather than to stand by saying, essentially, 'well, until you lot have complete unity, I disagree with you on a fundamental level.' That's bonkers.

No, I wouldn't refer to myself as a feminist. I'm first and foremost a Marxist autonomist. By default I'm also a feminist.

However not all women can have equality with men. Not all women can have equality with all men, until all women are equals amongst all women. For me all other political struggles linked to identity still collapse into class. All struggles need to first coalesce around class.

So no, I'm not a feminist, but write on women's struggles. And my main area of interest is how capitalism exploits women's labour.

This whole calling feminists man-haters is boring. I am sure there are indeed some women who hate men and some with good cause, but that certainly does not mean that every women who defends the rights of women also hates men.

Actually merchant my point is that tone can lead to alienation that can lead to disengagement with feminism. If you read my posts that is quite clear.

And yes I agree that there are huge issues that we need to be united on. Exactly the point I was making from the start.

Actually merchant my point is that tone can lead to alienation that can lead to disengagement with feminism

Anyone playing Bingo yet?

Your point being?

I am a feminist, a liberal/intersectional/equality feminist.

Yes. I believe both men and women should have the same choices and ability to do what they want with their lives. Pay and opportunities should be equal if two people are doing the same job, for example.

However I also believe that biological differences mean men and women have different strengths and weaknesses - physically, emotionally and in how they see the world - and that these should be acknowledged and celebrated too.

tone can lead to alienation

Well, it can, I guess, if you let it. Or you can focus on the most important elements of a post and put aside your critique of the style.

I had a full card a couple of pages back.

Well merchant I guess this sums up my point.

There is so much hideous abuse (and I use that word advisedly) of women going on that we have one hell of an uphill battle. Would we be more likely to win that battle with 31% of women engaged or 68% of women engaged?

Obviously those are totally made up figures with no factual basis. But this thread shows that lots of women feel alienated by feminism so do not engage. Maybe if we started treating each other with respect we would be in a better position to work together and achieve something? Maybe?

Well, that's fair enough, Hornblower, but what I really don't get, I guess, is what it is about reasoned, strident feminist argument that would alienate other women. I came to the feminism boards quite ignorant. The feminist posts I read totally got me on board. I don't understand why they would alienate huge numbers of women.

Fellati0Hornblower

A big yep to the tone thing. Their is an orthodoxy and a style required on the FWR. Any attempt to deviate is often dismissed as 'mansplaining'.

Huge issues we need to unite on - pp about having a vagina and wanting control over it needs to be emphasised. It is not up to me or anyone else to anoint women as feminists or not.

Good enough feminists doing their best to make any changes they can to improve the lives of others is what we want. Ethically and ideologically correct feminists pointing fingers help no one.

MiniTheMinx

I used to prioritise feminism over issues around control of the means of production but not any more. Capitalism is what fucks us over men,women, black or white. It's the economy stupid.

Merchant, fair enough and I respect what you have said.

I have no issue with strident arguments. But I do object to people patronising and condescending to others. That's how I read many posts and it is only my perception so it may be wrong. But it is how I feel.

I loathe that I live in a world in which FGM happens (for example) and I just feel so so strongly that these boards do put people off feminism and by extension getting involved in such causes. I'm not saying I am right but I will say I don't believe I am alone in me perception.

Ultimately I suspect you and I have similar ideals so I have no wish to fall out with you

Their is an orthodoxy and a style required [sic]

Is there? Really?? I have seen no evidence of this, and I've read a lot of threads recently. The feminist posters are so reasonable and clear - you'd have to be very bloody-minded to take offence.