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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Are you a feminist?

999 replies

NoLoveofMine · 06/08/2017 02:03

Yes or no...

OP posts:
PerspicaciaTick · 06/08/2017 18:25

I talk to women every week who do not know that they can keep their own names after marriage. And those are just the ones who raise the issue, there must be many more who never even ask the question.
If you think that the law says you have to change your name (even if you are wrong in thinking that) then, no, you don't have a real choice.

It isn't just the women, to be fair, a lot of men also think that women have to legally change their names.

orlantina · 06/08/2017 18:36

Choices we make aren't made in a vacuum.

And many people just go with the flow, with what's expected, just to fit in, not to stand out, not to be questioned and because it just makes life easier.

Stand out, be different and you can get a lot of hassle. Having to explain, to justify your position.

There's such a stigma with 'Ms'. So people stick with Miss or Mrs.

Same for keeping your name. And God forbid a man should take his wife's name. He will face loads of questions and judgement.

Maybe in the future, it won't be a thing.

But luckily, right now, there are plenty of choices men and women make everyday that aren't judged, that aren't questioned - and they would have been questioned and judged only a few years ago.

Rome wasn't built in a day. But step by step, progress is made. There are people who resist progress, who argue - and sometimes progress goes backwards.

Icantreachthepretzels · 06/08/2017 18:38

as for comparing to the suffergettes. What right is being fought for in the name change debate?

no dear, it was simply to illustrate the point that often women actively work against their own interests but that feminists will still care about them, and the cause (whatever it might be) regardless. It was a direct answer to your sneering post that weren't women lucky to have feminists looking out for them. Yes women are lucky, the idea that what feminists are debating about is unimportant or no one gives a shit is not new - it goes back until at least the 1900s, but still they persist.

As many posters have now pointed out to you, very few choices are actually free choices (this includes men as well) we are all constrained by our traditions, experiences and opportunities. Questioning choices women make does not mean that we think women don't think - we are simply offering them a different viewpoint to consider.

As I said up thread, people questioning choices and traditions often causes other people to get upset. The status quo can be very comforting, and change, even a change in perception, can be disconcerting.

You said that name changing wasn't patriarchal, i pointed out it was and explained the history behind it. You haven't had an actual counterpoint to this and have just become increasingly snide so I will try my best not to answer your next disingenuous, goady retort as this isn't going anywhere.

What's the saying? - Don't argue with stupidity, it will drag you down to its level and then beat you with experience - wise words.

orlantina · 06/08/2017 18:49

Questioning choices women make does not mean that we think women don't think - we are simply offering them a different viewpoint to consider

And people / society can get very upset and angry when different viewpoints are even expressed. Prominent commentators and media take great pleasure in trying to put the ideas down.

OVienna · 06/08/2017 18:51

To the original question: yes.

BingoFlamingos · 06/08/2017 18:53

Surely feminism is equality regardless of gender.
Shouldn't we all be feminists Hmm

Mumof56 · 06/08/2017 19:04

Hmmm, Racist and Stupid I've been called now on this thread.

Racist for disagreeing with fgm. And stupid because I don't think women are simple, unthinking creatures.

Odd kind of feminists on the go ...

pongoismyhero · 06/08/2017 19:06

And stupid because I don't think women are simple, unthinking creatures.

Kindly point out where anyone has said that.

BertrandRussell · 06/08/2017 19:21

"Racist for disagreeing with fgm"

Really???????

Gwenhwyfar · 06/08/2017 19:22

"Surely feminism is equality regardless of gender."

Not really. It's women having equality with men. Of course there are times when the patriarchy oppresses men too and feminism can help with that, but that isn't its main purpose.

WellErrr · 06/08/2017 19:25

Mumof56 is giving a masterclass in derailment today...

Mumof56 · 06/08/2017 19:27

@Bert

"a fucking racist prick"

isn't that right @pain

Painfulpain · 06/08/2017 19:42

Yes that is right mum you are

Racist for disagreeing with fgm

You sure like distorting and misrepresenting

I'm not engaging with you. It's a waste of time

Painfulpain · 06/08/2017 19:43

Precisely wellerr

Camomila · 06/08/2017 19:45

Of course.

Painfulpain · 06/08/2017 19:46

But to be fair, more fool us for responding to this nonsense

It's the way most discussions about feminism go, on MN. I'm going to stick to only posting on threads about dogs and ships, from now on. Such a colossal time sink

orlantina · 06/08/2017 19:50

It's the way most discussions about feminism go, on MN

It's the way they go on many forums. Some people really try to derail any discussions on feminist issues. You'd almost think they didn't think there were any issues Hmm

Mumof56 · 06/08/2017 19:53

I didn't bring up the issue of surnames

The femenists were already fretting about it before I got here.

pongoismyhero · 06/08/2017 19:58

So you don't actually have any sort of coherent argument then mum?

Gottagetmoving · 06/08/2017 20:00

I am not keen on labels. I believe I am equal to any other person on the planet and everyone is my equal. We should all believe that. If we did we wouldn't need labels like feminist. The problem with having a group with a name is that it separates and divides even if it starts off for the good of people.

AssignedMentalAtBirth · 06/08/2017 20:03

Tell that to the girls who are having their clitorises sliced off Got.

User843022 · 06/08/2017 20:04

'no dear, it was simply to illustrate the point that often women actively work against their own interests but that feminists will still care about them, and the cause'

dear? why oh why would any supposed feminist call another woman 'dear' Confused. No doubt some attempt at irony but a rather shit one imo.

orlantina · 06/08/2017 20:13

This is interesting. All about Sweden and gender equality. I don't recall anything from the UK Government like this.

sweden.se/society/sweden-gender-equality

Mumof56 · 06/08/2017 20:17

@pongo

Have you not read the last few pages? I'll sum it up for you.

WE ALREADY HAVE THAT RIGHT

But, But patriarchy

bambambini · 06/08/2017 20:18

The point is what is this obsession certain British women have in changing to Mrs when they get married ? Other nationalities don't do this.

That will be me then, obbssessed with proudly claiming Mrs and changing my name to be owned by the husband. Probably excitedly flapping my hands at the prospect. I found that such a snide and superior sounding comment.